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Cyclists!

Started by Bad Raven, February 20, 2017, 21:21:49 pm

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Bad Raven


Now I'm all for cycling (have two) and cyclists safety, but am getting pretty damn fed up with their "representatives" spouting off about how government is not doing enough to keep them safe and must do much more.

I had a boring return ride of ten miles each way as a car passenger at the weekend, which included a series of urban roads and a long urban lane, tree edged with lots of shadows, but often used by cyclists.

So, I did a quick n dirty survey.

1. Almost 75% of cyclists seen were wearing mostly or all black, with black or indistinct bike colour.  Yet a large proportion of these were using head cameras to catch the "dangerous driver" in the act.

2. A large group (20 plus) were riding the two mile long gently winding high hedged lane in our direction, max 20 mph, mostly 15ish, mostly one solid single file line, with swerving overtakes, making any overtake impossible. They slowed to a near stop at one point to have a conversation with riders coming the other way!

In that time they passed two points that they could have paused to relieve the trapped traffic, but chose to ride all the way to a roundabout at the lane end where they spread out and stopped four abreast having a drink, completely blocking the now wider road right to the keep left island into the roundabout, which two less tolerant drivers jumped.

After more than a minute, which seemed longer, they leisurely resumed their ride, turned right at the roundabout and now on a much wider A road spread out to six or more abreast, filling the road in their direction. (The road used to be three wide lanes so is very wide for a single carriageway, allowing car to overtake car without going over the central line, but they did their best and filled it,) now up slope doing less than 20mph. The road has cycle paths both sides with grass separation, which they ignored.

As a few of the 25% were wearing the same distinctive club shirt/jacket, I can only assume it was a club organised ride. Sadly I was not in my car so no Dash Cam video to send to their club secretary or their local Police.

And on the local news tonight?  Yet another motorist bashing session by the cycle lobby, as someone had ridden up the inside of a lorry turning left and got crushed. 

I drove four miles each way this morning, and saw a number of dangerous "undertakes" and overtakes by cyclists of cars and vans already in front or queued and indicating, two red light crossings and an ignored pedestrian crossing with cars stopped and people on it, one of the red light crossers causing a mother and pushchair to leap back.. That I DO have on video, not that anyone would care.

And yet they expect more time and public money to be spent when they do nothing to help themselves.......................................Driving in Urban London is getting to be a nightmare!
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

itsme

Get no argument from me. Up to our flying site this morning on a B road, loads of cyclists mostly two abreast (which I gather is not illegal!) And in one spot four abreast. This is on a winding road with high hedges. You dare not drive faster than 20-30 as around the next bend may be a gaggle of them. Worst of all though was later on when it was dark, four lads on bikes with no lights, all dressed in dark clothes and baseball caps, coming towards me on my side of the road....I had to go over the other side to avoid them....

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itsme

Losing it...I meant yesterday (Sunday ) morning.

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kinverflyer

This thread could end up with a major rant against cyclist. However I experience pretty much of what has been said about cyclist on a fairly regular basis, they dont help themselves.

Darkstar56

I am a regular cyclist in the lanes of Lincs and Yorks.

I entirely agree with the comments made about cyclists by Bad Raven.

When I cycle I either use a sky blue (colour not team) jacket or a flourescent yellow gilet. I want people to see me, it helps them miss.

If I go out in a big group I am always happy if they split into smaller groupings with say 50 metre gaps to help the motorist overtake.

I have no sympathy with people who ride up the inside of lorries and vans and then get squashed. If I am stuck in a queue then I try to take up a place in the middle of the lane, as if I was a car, and wait my turn.

I also do not jump traffic lights, those that do deserve all they get.

I try to ride defensively as I did when I had a motorbike.

I have only been nearly taken off twice. Once by a farmer in a big 4x4 that filled the lane and resented me cycling along it towards him and once by a town driver who just pulled out from the curb as I was overtaking. He was totally shocked when I banged my fist on his drivers window, he just had not looked. He did apologise though which the farmer did not.

Some of the issues seem to me to be part of the "I have a right to do what I want, and do it now, how I want to do it" culture that is is all parts of society. Cyclists and other road users all have rights and we should all remember those and try to coexist happily which I an sure we can do if we have just a little consideration for others.

Even our hobby with the very loud large petrol engines which are often, to me, inadequately silenced and offensive to me as a fellow modeller. Yet people seem surprised when others complain about them.

Lincolnshire police post once a year about some of the ridiculous 999 calls they get. "999, It is early and the cows are mooing". "999, I have just moved to a house opposite the church and the bells are ringing at 09:30 on a Sunday" What do people expect if they move to the country. It is not always the quiet environment they seem to believe when they move from the city.

We are in an intolent society now with everyone demanding the rights irrespective of whether the rights they demand infringe those of others.

Rant over

Maxg
"... acquisition of knowledge is never too dear."
Sir Francis Walsingham, Spymaster to Q Elizabeth 1.

itsme

Quiet countryside? Lol. Try sleeping when a cow with belly ache is mooing in your window....or a frisky owl calling all night!

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Andy J

Working in Oxford, this all sounds so familiar.  Also, I have experienced some utterly selfish behaviour from cyclists, I used to frequently get stuck behind a troop of older cyclists on a Saturday morning, they used to come through the village I lived at about 8 in the morning taking up the whole road, 3 miles at 10 -15mph on the road from the village to the main road then you were lucky if you got past them on the main road so stuck for another mile or so until they turned off,  another was on a busy 60mph limit road 2 MAMILS doing 10 mph, one of them straddling the centre line so deliberately obstructing people from overtaking them safely.  don't get me wrong, I'm not anti cycling, I am cautious, courteous and give cyclists the required amount of room, however rarely to I get any courtesy back and like others have said it really winds me up when cycling lobbyists go on the TV or radio asking for more and more to be done to keep cyclists safe from us evil motorists then defend such actions as undertaking and filtering and when asked "why not use segregated cycle lanes where provided" they always come up with the excuse that they are too dangerous, dangerous compared to what? Filtering and undertaking buses and HGVs!  I've even heard cyclist defend jumping red lights by saying it's safer for THEM than stopping, Oh yeah, no thought given to those of us who often have to jump out the way of  RLJ cyclists whilst using a pedestrian crossing.
When you're chewing on lifes grissle don't grumble give a whistle and this'll make things turn out f

ofej

March 04, 2017, 21:40:34 pm #7 Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 21:48:59 pm by ofej
OK I am a cyclist and a car driver. Here is my perspective from a cyclists viewpoint...

It is only 6 miles to where I work (Basildon Hospital), but I don't commute at the moment, because car drivers, all too often, have too little time in the morning to clean their windows of frost / water / road salt, they have too little time to stop while they receive and make phone calls, and they have too little time to wait behind me while I ride through restrictions in the width of the road (bollards) on the B roads that I have to use.

The worst offenders, generally, are Mums (their faces constantly illuminated by the blue lights of their mobile phones) hassled by their little darling's, who have school schedules to meet. Their 4 x 4 monsters keep them safe as they virtually scrape the fibres of my hi-vis jacket.

When the risks have subsided, a little more - ie less chance of icy / wet / dirty windscreens and windows, I will be commuting again, but I know exactly what to expect. It frightens me whenever a car comes from a side road to the road in front of me, and I can see that they're windows are covered in frost.

Sometimes the potholes are horrendous, and force me to take a decision on endangering the trueness of my wheels, or my life, based on whether I think the driver behind will appreciate my environment.

I have a 65 mile charity ride in May, for which I have to get fit. To train for the charity ride, I use the cycle lane along Southend Seafront - just five miles long, I spend three hours every Monday and Thursday going back and forth, currently I am doing more than 60km (38 miles). This week I have had 22mph winds along the front to contend with. Those that ride a pushbike will know that this is great when the wind is behind you - and a struggle, to say the least, when it is in your face. It's unsafe to do more than 20mph on the cycle path, when the wind is behind me I am capable of sustaining 20mph or more. So I ride in the road with the wind, then on the cycle path on the way back into the wind.

The reason it is unsafe to use the cycle path at speeds above 20mph? People don't expect me to be there and my brakes are not as effective as a car's brakes because I weigh more than 17 stone. I have encountered mobility scooters, vans off-loading goods, joggers, dog walkers, children (sometimes on bikes), and other people that ride their bikes in a dream world. Some people just walk along the path or across it, oblivious of it's purpose. The cycle path surface is much bumpier than the road surface. No this is definitely not the place for me.

OK so with the wind, when I am full of energy and going for it, I use the road. Because it is a 40ft wide, thirty limit road, with cameras along it's busiest sections, you would not think that I would be a reason to cause road rage, when I am keeping to the left and doing more than twenty mph. But I get van drivers swerving in front of me, dangerously close and braking unnecessarily, people shouting obscenities at me and sounding their horns aggressively.

Whenever anybody takes the time to give me space, I make a point of thanking them. It is very pleasant when car and van drivers (so far it has always been male drivers) appreciate my thanking them for their courtesy - with a reciprocal wave and smile.

I could go on, but nobody will have read it all anyway.

itsme

Quote from: ofej on March 04, 2017, 21:40:34 pm
OK I am a cyclist and a car driver. Here is my perspective from a cyclists viewpoint...

It is only 6 miles to where I work (Basildon Hospital), but I don't commute at the moment, because car drivers, all too often, have too little time in the morning to clean their windows of frost / water / road salt, they have too little time to stop while they receive and make phone calls, and they have too little time to wait behind me while I ride through restrictions in the width of the road (bollards) on the B roads that I have to use.

The worst offenders, generally, are Mums (their faces constantly illuminated by the blue lights of their mobile phones) hassled by their little darling's, who have school schedules to meet. Their 4 x 4 monsters keep them safe as they virtually scrape the fibres of my hi-vis jacket.

When the risks have subsided, a little more - ie less chance of icy / wet / dirty windscreens and windows, I will be commuting again, but I know exactly what to expect. It frightens me whenever a car comes from a side road to the road in front of me, and I can see that they're windows are covered in frost.

Sometimes the potholes are horrendous, and force me to take a decision on endangering the trueness of my wheels, or my life, based on whether I think the driver behind will appreciate my environment.

I have a 65 mile charity ride in May, for which I have to get fit. To train for the charity ride, I use the cycle lane along Southend Seafront - just five miles long, I spend three hours every Monday and Thursday going back and forth, currently I am doing more than 60km (38 miles). This week I have had 22mph winds along the front to contend with. Those that ride a pushbike will know that this is great when the wind is behind you - and a struggle, to say the least, when it is in your face. It's unsafe to do more than 20mph on the cycle path, when the wind is behind me I am capable of sustaining 20mph or more. So I ride in the road with the wind, then on the cycle path on the way back into the wind.

The reason it is unsafe to use the cycle path at speeds above 20mph? People don't expect me to be there and my brakes are not as effective as a car's brakes because I weigh more than 17 stone. I have encountered mobility scooters, vans off-loading goods, joggers, dog walkers, children (sometimes on bikes), and other people that ride their bikes in a dream world. Some people just walk along the path or across it, oblivious of it's purpose. The cycle path surface is much bumpier than the road surface. No this is definitely not the place for me.

OK so with the wind, when I am full of energy and going for it, I use the road. Because it is a 40ft wide, thirty limit road, with cameras along it's busiest sections, you would not think that I would be a reason to cause road rage, when I am keeping to the left and doing more than twenty mph. But I get van drivers swerving in front of me, dangerously close and braking unnecessarily, people shouting obscenities at me and sounding their horns aggressively.

Whenever anybody takes the time to give me space, I make a point of thanking them. It is very pleasant when car and van drivers (so far it has always been male drivers) appreciate my thanking them for their courtesy - with a reciprocal wave and smile.

I could go on, but nobody will have read it all anyway.
Oh yes we will. So, what you are saying then, is, the cycle tracks ( of which we have many, many miles here) are not fit for purpose and the multi millions of pounds poured into them (and the disruption while they are built- six months in the case of one extremely busy commuter route I know) are a waste of money and the inconvenience to other road users? And the one I am talking about is actually a seventy mph dual carriageway ten miles long where women, children and proper cycle commuters use the track, while the lycra clad urban revolutionaries insist on cycling, head down, along the road....just a perspective from a (careful) drivers point.

ofej

No, I am only giving MY reasons for not using cycle tracks when I am capable of doing speeds on the road, that are within ten mph of the speed limit.

Any cyclist that currently rides on 70mph roads in busy areas is either asking for trouble, or must have a very good reason for doing so.

Personally, I would never ride on the dual carriageways in South Essex, and have not seen anyone else doing so for the last twenty years.

Some cycle tracks are probably in good order and properly marked, so that those using them are safe to do so.

itsme

Quote from: ofej on March 04, 2017, 23:16:44 pm
No, I am only giving MY reasons for not using cycle tracks when I am capable of doing speeds on the road, that are within ten mph of the speed limit.

Any cyclist that currently rides on 70mph roads in busy areas is either asking for trouble, or must have a very good reason for doing so.

Personally, I would never ride on the dual carriageways in South Essex, and have not seen anyone else doing so for the last twenty years.

Some cycle tracks are probably in good order and properly marked, so that those using them are safe to do so.
The road I am talking about is the A52 in and out of Nottingham, two lanes each side so at rush hour both lanes have OVER 70mph traffic going down them. You can imagine the problems when that traffic comes across Lycra Len and his best mate cycling down it and taking a lane up.

EssJay

How about a group of "evolutionary throwback" kids deciding to hold up the traffic on a major London thoroughfare just for the hell of it, even when there's clearly a cycle lane. No wonder some car drivers lose their rag!
https://youtu.be/pJaHzJHCA1U


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Andy J

Quote from: ofej on March 04, 2017, 21:40:34 pm

The reason it is unsafe to use the cycle path at speeds above 20mph? People don't expect me to be there and my brakes are not as effective as a car's brakes because I weigh more than 17 stone. I have encountered mobility scooters, vans off-loading goods, joggers, dog walkers, children (sometimes on bikes), and other people that ride their bikes in a dream world. Some people just walk along the path or across it, oblivious of it's purpose. The cycle path surface is much bumpier than the road surface. No this is definitely not the place for me.



So cycle to the conditions, no one is forcing you to do 20mph, the roads and cycle paths are designed for getting from A to B, not as race tracks, plus, also as a cyclist, you have more options than a motorist open to you should your path be obstruted ahead, if you are cycling to the conditions, none of those things are a danger to you, mearly an inconvieince, it really gets my goat when cyclists say that expensive, dedicated  cycle paths are too dangerous to use when the real truth is they are not safe enough for them to cycle at speed on, then moan on about motorists putting their lives at risk.
When you're chewing on lifes grissle don't grumble give a whistle and this'll make things turn out f

keithl

One place that I cycle regularly is in a residential area.  The road has a 20mph limit and sped bumps due to a school (which is my destination as I am a governor).  The pavement on one side is wide and is half pedestrian and half cycle lane.  The problem is that there are three side roads that cross it and so have right of way, plus numerous driveways where cars appear without expecting to encounter a cyclist.

The solution - cycle on the road where I can maintain around 10-15mph and have right of way.
Warning: objects in the mirror may be close than they appear (or I'm creeping up on you from behind)

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: keithl on March 06, 2017, 12:19:16 pm
One place that I cycle regularly is in a residential area.  The road has a 20mph limit and sped bumps due to a school (which is my destination as I am a governor).  The pavement on one side is wide and is half pedestrian and half cycle lane.  The problem is that there are three side roads that cross it and so have right of way, plus numerous driveways where cars appear without expecting to encounter a cyclist.

The solution - cycle on the road where I can maintain around 10-15mph and have right of way.

Provided the emerging motorists are actually looking!
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Steve Lewin

March 06, 2017, 15:30:53 pm #15 Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 15:33:12 pm by Steve Lewin
"Here lies the body of young Johnny Grey
Who died preserving his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he cycled along
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong"

Rights of way are theoretical, inattentive car/van/truck drivers are unfortunately very practical.

Steve

keithl

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on March 06, 2017, 13:25:31 pm
Provided the emerging motorists are actually looking!
Mike

Staying alert and possessing an air horn both help with this
Warning: objects in the mirror may be close than they appear (or I'm creeping up on you from behind)

pooh

Quote from: Steve Lewin on March 06, 2017, 15:30:53 pm

Rights of way are theoretical, inattentive car/van/truck drivers are unfortunately very practical.

Steve


I happened to attend  speed awareness course (my error was accelerating away from a village a bit before I had left the 30mph area, my fault ) and one of the presentations was a short video showing the driver's view along a country road. We were asked to note any potential hazards. I noted 13, the police driver tally was 26. Turns out I only missed two hazards, but the police driver considered every other vehicle - 11 of them - to be a hazard which explained the difference!

And underlines Steve's point.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

ofej

Surprisingly apt comments on here today, considering my ride tonight.

I was doing around 18mph, going as hard as I could (not much tailwind), along an empty cycle path at around 7.40pm.

Became aware that a Taxi coming towards me was crossing the interface between road and cycle path, heading straight at me, blocking my path. Initial reaction was to stop pedaling. He will see me in a second... sheeit! He hasn't seen me... SWERVE!!

Fortunately his eyes did start pointing the right way and he swerved giving me a small gap to get down.

Pretty impressive that anyone could not see me, seeing as I have two LED torches on the handlebars, one on continuously, the other flashing 3 times a second, both very bright.

The taxi driver was very apologetic when I politely informed him of his driving inadequacies.


itsme

Quote from: ofej on March 06, 2017, 23:27:58 pm
Surprisingly apt comments on here today, considering my ride tonight.

I was doing around 18mph, going as hard as I could (not much tailwind), along an empty cycle path at around 7.40pm.

Became aware that a Taxi coming towards me was crossing the interface between road and cycle path, heading straight at me, blocking my path. Initial reaction was to stop pedaling. He will see me in a second... sheeit! He hasn't seen me... SWERVE!!

Fortunately his eyes did start pointing the right way and he swerved giving me a small gap to get down.

Pretty impressive that anyone could not see me, seeing as I have two LED torches on the handlebars, one on continuously, the other flashing 3 times a second, both very bright.

The taxi driver was very apologetic when I politely informed him of his driving inadequacies.

So the bloody annoying lights are useless then?

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Bad Raven

The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

ofej

Well, not useless, otherwise I would not have been telling the tale, would I?

Butzi

Quote from: itsme on March 06, 2017, 23:56:44 pm
So the bloody annoying lights are useless then?

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There are none so blind as those who will not see!  ;)
As a motorist and part time 'Lycra clad Loony' (if you've got it, flaunt it  :-*), I see both sides, but I have infinitely more near misses when I'm cycling. 'Nuff said.

BTW, horses need banning off the roads in this day and age. They have no place on public roads anymore and are a flamin' liability!  >:(

Old Geezer

Just treat horses and their riders with the consideration you expect/demand from car drivers when you're in MAMIL mode and they won't be a liability.
Just remember that horses are "flight animals" - the moment they feel threatened they will try to be elsewhere - quickly - and they might just poke out an iron shod foot for good measure to deter the threat. Let the rider and his/her mount know you're there and when passing give them as wide a berth as possible.
Oh - and more and more horse riders are following the cycling fraternity and wearing helmet-cams so that inconsiderate, and worse, dangerous behaviour on the road has resulted in prosecutions.
Can someone remind me what I came in here for.

EssJay

Isn't it about time that horse owners who wish to use the public roads are required to take out adequate third party insurance just like motorists.
I was going to say just like all other road users, but I believe it would be far more difficult to ensure that cyclists take out insurance as:

a) There are so many it would be impossible to police.
b) They seem to a law unto themselves anyway.
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Butzi

Quote from: Old Geezer on March 08, 2017, 19:08:21 pm
Just treat horses and their riders with the consideration you expect/demand from car drivers when you're in MAMIL mode and they won't be a liability.
Just remember that horses are "flight animals" - the moment they feel threatened they will try to be elsewhere - quickly -


I do give them special consideration when I'm driving (or cycling), but because as you rightly say they are 'flight animals', they are therefore flamin' well unpredictable. Personally I think they're a huge liability and have no place on today's Queen's highway.
As an aside, my granddaughter has recently started at riding school and it fills me with dread thinking that one day she'll no doubt be wanting to go out on the public roads with her friends and join the rest of the county's horsey brigade.

Michael_Rolls

I long ago came to the conclusion that if you meet a horse and its rider, there is a good chance that the horse is the brighter element of the pair!
Mike  ;D ;D
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

itsme

Back to lights- got one last night that made me bloomin angry. He had one of those high power strobes and had it set deliberately to shine in motorists eyes. It has to be illegal.

Big A

Quote from: EssJay on March 08, 2017, 22:04:59 pm
Isn't it about time that horse owners who wish to use the public roads are required to take out adequate third party insurance just like motorists.
I was going to say just like all other road users, but I believe it would be far more difficult to ensure that cyclists take out insurance as:

a) There are so many it would be impossible to police.
b) They seem to a law unto themselves anyway.

Many cyclists do have 3rd party insurance. I do.

Most cyclists are not a law unto themselves either, while driving I find most considerate. Just as while cycling I find most car drivers considerate and aware. There are always going to be a minority of cyclists and motorists that give the rest a bad name though.

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Big A

Quote from: itsme on March 09, 2017, 12:43:11 pm
Back to lights- got one last night that made me bloomin angry. He had one of those high power strobes and had it set deliberately to shine in motorists eyes. It has to be illegal.

Deliberately? Or just inconsideratly or perhaps even unaware.

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pooh

March 09, 2017, 15:44:35 pm #30 Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 15:51:27 pm by pooh
Quote from: Michael_Rolls on March 09, 2017, 08:57:58 am
I long ago came to the conclusion that if you meet a horse and its rider, there is a good chance that the horse is the brighter element of the pair!
Mike  ;D ;D


you might like to explain that to my wife (BSc 2:1) and daughter (BA (Oxon) MA, PhD, Professor), and me (BSc, MSc)  all horseriders  :''

but seriously, a horse can out-accelerate a Ferrari 0-30mph, the problem is you can't be sure in which direction it will do it.

Most horses are fine on roads as long as they are treated with respect, given good clearance, passed considerately at a sensible speed, with no deliberate noise. Much as a cyclist would like to be treated. Or another driver. Or a pedestrian.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

itsme

It was aimed at the car windscreen, not the road. There is no way he would have been unaware.

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itsme

Sorry- that was to Big A.

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Michael_Rolls

Quote from: pooh on March 09, 2017, 15:44:35 pm
you might like to explain that to my wife (BSc 2:1) and daughter (BA (Oxon) MA, PhD, Professor), and me (BSc, MSc)  all horseriders  :''

but seriously, a horse can out-accelerate a Ferrari 0-30mph, the problem is you can't be sure in which direction it will do it.

Most horses are fine on roads as long as they are treated with respect, given good clearance, passed considerately at a sensible speed, with no deliberate noise. Much as a cyclist would like to be treated. Or another driver. Or a pedestrian.

Well, since you ask, the two 'ladies' who took their half ton or more hacks over our carefully mowed and rolled strip, surrounded by quite rough grass about 6-10 inches high, making it absolutely f---ing obvious that it was different to the rest of the many acres that they were transversing, throwing up divots,, creating potholes and generally negating much of the work that we had put in on it and looked astonished when, running after them to remonstrate, they couldn't understand what I was going on about - no BLOODY consideration none at ALL - your move!
Mike  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
|Oh, and I live in the depths of the country with many horses on our lanes (can't really call them roads) and I always pass them at a crawl and they acknowledge me, I acknowledge them and all is well, The BIG problem is the folk - male and female, but more often the latter, who aren't true country folk, but think they are!
As this is a family forum, further words escape me!!
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Michael_Rolls

Oh, if your ladies indulge in the sort of behaviour I have described (and it's not a sole experience, sadly) I don't are how many degrees they have - they mean absolutely nothing when we are talking about consideration toward others.
\Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Michael_Rolls

Oh, and once again - we have have two stables within 200 yards of us - I probably encounter more horses on the road in a  week than most people do in a year, and more than some do in a lifetime - and 90% of the time, no problem - and when there is, most of the time it is caused by an outsider, whether on four legs or four wheels.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Big A

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on March 09, 2017, 19:14:27 pm
Oh, and once again - we have have two stables within 200 yards of us - I probably encounter more horses on the road in a  week than most people do in a year, and more than some do in a lifetime - and 90% of the time, no problem - and when there is, most of the time it is caused by an outsider, whether on four legs or four wheels.
Mike

In my experience most cyclists, motorists and horsey types are considerate to other road users, there is a minority of each who are less so. Just like people in general really.

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The Beakmeister

Quote from: Big A on March 10, 2017, 07:28:06 am
In my experience most cyclists, motorists and horsey types are considerate to other road users, there is a minority of each who are less so. Just like people in general really.

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Andy
I would agree with you, having driven low loaders for many years and still venture on HM highways with up to 60 tonne excavators on the back, I have noted over the years that your average cyclist, or horsey type tend on the whole to be pretty considerate, consider that a low loader does have its own peculiar handling needs,, The problems only come up when they are in a group,,, Now that's when all common sense seems to go out of the window and they firmly believe that in the event of it all going wrong then they will come out better than a vehicle with a GTW of over 60 tonnes !! perhaps their presence in numbers is equated to the their increased bravado and equal lack of common sense???  as for chavs in blinged up Golfs, Astras and what ever they can lower to the ground,,, My belief is they are lowered to pass under the bed of the average low loader, as we can not see them in the mirror when they resolutely try to undertake us on roundabouts !
There are only two types of model aircraft, those that have crashed and those that are going to crash !

pooh

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on March 09, 2017, 19:09:37 pm
Oh, if your ladies indulge in the sort of behaviour I have described (and it's not a sole experience, sadly) I don't are how many degrees they have - they mean absolutely nothing when we are talking about consideration toward others.
\Mike


My comment was a little tongue-in-cheek. You made the comment that implied the majority of riders were less intelligent than their horse. I was suggesting that is not always the case.

Clearly you have a reason to be less than pleased about riders, but it is hardly fair to damn all of them because of the stupidity and lack of consideration shown by a few. But as BigA says "In my experience most cyclists, motorists and horsey types are considerate to other road users, there is a minority of each who are less so. Just like people in general really"
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

Michael_Rolls

Pooh
I'm not damning them all - but some are right idiots and seem to think that being mounted on a fairly nervous, quite easily startled, half ton quadruped make them (a) king or queen of all they survey and (b) immortal - and it ain't necessarily so, as it says in the song.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend