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Only electric new cars from 2040

Started by Michael_Rolls, July 26, 2017, 07:15:22 am

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Patmac

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on August 06, 2017, 15:58:34 pm
Seeing that I was 80 last week, unlikely - but what about my granddaughter - 7 in
December?
Mike


Will she have the same problems & priorites in 2040 as you have now or will she be more concerned about the inevitably limited availiblity of fossil fuels in her lifetime ?

My grandaughter will be 3 in January so we're running in parallel.  ;)
Pax vobiscum

Big A

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about, it's only a ban on conventional petrol and diesel powered vehicles, hybrid vehicles are not affected and I really cannot see many new vehicles that aren't at least hybrid by 2040. I am currently driving a Toyota Aurid hybrid, 400 -450 miles range on a full tank, it tends to mostly use electric around the towns and petrol on motorways. I suspect the main change will be some geofencing built in so that in certain areas you can only use electric.

IDD15

Big A is absolutely right there is nothing to worry about.  EV technology is not going to stand still in the next 23 years, in fact it is moving so fast I decided to lease and not buy the Leaf.  As to whether this was the right thing to do I'll let you know in about 29 months!

To anybody thinking about an EV I'd say do it if your lifestyle suits the "current" technology.  They are absolutely wonderful to drive IMHO. 

idd

PS The Leaf has a noise generator to warn pedestrians/guide dogs/hearing dogs.  Driving through a "shared space" high street everyday it appears to work way better than a conventional engine at dissuading pedestrians from leaping out into the road!
Oooops!


paulinfrance

Quote to biga,

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about, it's only a ban on conventional petrol and diesel powered vehicles,

Oh come off it, so I have to bin my 407 diesel and fork out a car big enough for my 'toys', at least 40.000€ ! and throw my V 8 Jag engine away and put a brushless motor in it,, :study:
and what about my motor bikes ! what ever you do now is too little too late, so lets just burn the planet up, :ev like the yanks, Chinese and Indians do,,, :-X   
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

FlyinBrian

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 07, 2017, 11:39:03 am
Quote to biga,

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about, it's only a ban on conventional petrol and diesel powered vehicles,

Oh come off it, so I have to bin my 407 diesel and fork out a car big enough for my 'toys', at least 40.000€ ! and throw my V 8 Jag engine away and put a brushless motor in it,, :study:
and what about my motor bikes ! what ever you do now is too little too late, so lets just burn the planet up, :ev like the yanks, Chinese and Indians do,,, :-X


I think you are over reacting a bit, so far as I understand the proposal is to ban NEW IC only powered vehicles. Existing vehicles are not banned from use in 2040.

Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

itsme

its a ban on the sale of new diesels. By then, no companies will be making them anyway. I see the new Mini factory is to be electrics only. Plus there may be a new technology coming out with aluminium/hydrogen power. http://www.arl.army.mil/www/default.cfm?article=3036

FrankS

Quote from: itsme on August 07, 2017, 13:02:32 pm
I see the new Mini factory is to be electrics only. [/url]


I hadn't seen that, can you post a link, the article I'd read was that the Oxford plant was going to build the electric mini together with the IC versions on the same line.

paulinfrance

Mini No Thanks,  :-X we got rid of ours last year with 43.000 klm's on the clock with all sorts of electrical faults, so if
they build electric cars what's the chance of you being electrocuted or burned to death !. :banghead:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Big A

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 07, 2017, 11:39:03 am
Quote to biga,

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about, it's only a ban on conventional petrol and diesel powered vehicles,

Oh come off it, so I have to bin my 407 diesel and fork out a car big enough for my 'toys', at least 40.000€ ! and throw my V 8 Jag engine away and put a brushless motor in it,, :study:
and what about my motor bikes ! what ever you do now is too little too late, so lets just burn the planet up, :ev like the yanks, Chinese and Indians do,,, :-X
Its not happening until 2040!! Very much doubt your 407 diesel will still be running and by then all new vehicles will already by either hybrid or electric anyway, also they atent banning the existing conventional I/C from being used.

Its a complete non issue.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


itsme

Quote from: FrankS on August 07, 2017, 13:38:19 pm
I hadn't seen that, can you post a link, the article I'd read was that the Oxford plant was going to build the electric mini together with the IC versions on the same line.
you are correct. I assumed the new factory was to be electric only.

Phil_G

August 07, 2017, 15:46:26 pm #131 Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 15:50:58 pm by Phil_G
I'm not at all 'worried' I find the whole EV thing fascinating, hobby-wise on a very small scale I've built 2 'conventional' lecky bikes and one lecky race bike (including designing the electronics) and spent far too many hours researching power systems. At one point I was on first name terms with the guy who ran Perm! 
I just think in their eagerness to sell EV's to a hungry market they're underestimating the infrastructure requirement and cost.   I just hope I'm still driving anything in 2040!
I think the next major step will be not to store electricity in batteries at all, but to generate it on the fly, there are many fledgling technologies any of which could make it to 2040.
Interesting times  :af

FrankS

Must admit I'm tempted with an electric vehicle https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/ev3/  :D

itsme

Quote from: Phil_G on August 07, 2017, 15:46:26 pm

I think the next major step will be not to store electricity in batteries at all, but to generate it on the fly, there are many fledgling technologies any of which could make it to 2040.
Interesting times  :af
The water/ aluminium breakthrough I posted above looks as if it could do exactly that.

paulinfrance

Quote from: Big A on August 07, 2017, 14:59:48 pm
Its not happening until 2040!! Very much doubt your 407 diesel will still be running and by then all new vehicles will already by either hybrid or electric anyway, also they atent banning the existing conventional I/C from being used.

Its a complete non issue.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Why not, I see regularly old Peugeots on the road, this one from 1898 !

as for my electric push bike, I am going to fit one of these in a trailer behind me to keep it charged,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

FrankS

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 07, 2017, 16:54:30 pm
Why not, I see regularly old Peugeots on the road, this one from 1898 !



They don't build them like they used too..............................

Big A

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 07, 2017, 16:54:30 pm
Why not, I see regularly old Peugeots on the road, this one from 1898 !

as for my electric push bike, I am going to fit one of these in a trailer behind me to keep it charged,,
Well if it is still running you can still use it they arent banning them just the sale of new ones.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


The Saint. (Owen)

My mobility scooter is electric, does that count?  :''
Electrickery is the work of the devil.
Proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

paulinfrance

Quote from: Big A on August 07, 2017, 17:10:10 pm
Well if it is still running you can still use it they arent banning them just the sale of new ones.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

It is already illegal to drive both of my cars in Paris, Bordeaux, Grenoble and Lyon on high pollution days, so it's only a matter of time when I can only run it in my garage, with or without a hose,,  :'(
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 07, 2017, 18:09:24 pm
It is already illegal to drive both of my cars in Paris, Bordeaux, Grenoble and Lyon on high pollution days, so it's only a matter of time when I can only run it in my garage, with or without a hose,,  :'(

Come home, ALL IS FORGIVEN!
mIke   :af :af
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Michael_Rolls

According to today's paper, the National Grid is warning that low power (relatively speaking) charger will take 19 hours to fully charge a 300 mile range battery starting with it at 25% capacity. A high power charger will only take 9 hours - but will be pushing the household supply to its limit. Switching on a kettle or the oven whilst charging will blow/trip the main fuse
I still wonder where all the electricity is going to come from.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

SMF

I did wonder. I thought that my maths had gone all wonky when I heard of people charging up in half an hour. ......mmm a long way to go methinks.

Michael_Rolls

Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

paulinfrance

What it means is, that you will have to have a private parking  'out of the rain', and a transformer to deal with the current, and probably a new law obliging you to have solar panels on your roof,  so not everyone will have an authorisation to own one, not forgetting the fridge when the compressor turns on, the washing machine and dryer, the electric mower, and even the TV !,  but while thinking about it,  you can always drink cold tea,,,  :''
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

IDD15

OK so here how hard it is for me with 2017 technology to charge my EV.

Step 1 Park car on the house drive.
Step 2 Plug in car to wall mounted charger
Step 3 Use iPad to login to car to check car charger start/stop times ok
Step 4 Go to bed.  Car automatically starts and stops charging during "cheap" overnight electricity tariff.
Step 5 Get up and unplug car
Step 6 Drive car to work.

Option Step 3A is to set car timer to preheat/cool cabin before I set off in morning. Luxury!

Don't think I break a sweat or get stressed over any of that.  I was warned by the charger installation guy that living in a mid 1950's house the main fuse would probably not take the current required by the hob/oven/shower/fishtank/hairdryer(s)/hoover/car charger all on at the same time.  This conundrum is solved by step 4 above.

Step 1, parking on your own drive is certainly a barrier for some to EV ownership.  However people are working on solutions to that problem.

What people tend to forget about charging time is that it is the last 20% that takes the time.  The Leaf (30 Kwh) will get to 80% capacity in under 30 minutes on a rapid charger.  That last 20% can take another 30 minutes or more.  I do not think it unreasonable to expect this battery chemistry problem to be solved in the next 20 years.

So you ask where is all this electricity to come from.  Well it takes 6Kwh of electricity to refine just ONE US gallon of petrol.  I can drive my Leaf for 27 miles on that 6Kwh.  So as "we" gradually stop making all this toxic petrol to in turn burn and create toxic pollution, there is going to be a lot of electricity generating capacity freed up.

Cheer up chaps, the future is bright!  Better air quality and reduced chance of dying from lung disease.

Idd

PS Iced tea is the drink of the devil and should be banned forthwith and its followers banished to the wilds of the EU.  :ev







Oooops!

paulinfrance

Me,
Step 1, Get in my car wherever I parked it
Step 2  Turn the key and listen to the gurgling exhaust note
Step 3  Drive it with a smile on my face. :nananana:


On Holiday or 'else where' fill it up after 600 klm with petrol, wow 3 minutes to do that chore,,,  :af
  Overtake the electric cars on the AutoRoute which on cold days can't use the heating,  :-X  or drive more than 100 klm's at night because of the lights, Then park where ever I want to,,, knowing that I can do another 600 klm's without hunting down an electric plug that won't charge, or will need 12 hours to charge it  :banghead:

I rest my case,,,  :uk:


Mode 2 THE only way to fly

ludwig

VW are to bring out a modern version of their famous Combi-Wargen, (motor home) which will be electric only. Can't wait.

paulinfrance

Quote from: ludwig on August 23, 2017, 19:06:27 pm
VW are to bring out a modern version of their famous Combi-Wargen, (motor home) which will be electric only. Can't wait.


Me too, If it will get Caravans off of the road  :banghead:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

IDD15

Quote from: ludwig on August 23, 2017, 19:06:27 pm
VW are to bring out a modern version of their famous Combi-Wargen, (motor home) which will be electric only. Can't wait.


Yes looks really very good.

Fabulous one off conversion of another German classic here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs

idd

Oooops!

paulinfrance

Thanks IDD15, it only confirms my lust for internal combustion cars, I consumed a couple
of 'espresso's' to keep me from nodding off during the video  :-\
    so if I got it right,
1,  It costs around 24.000€ to ruin a Porsche ( I don't like them anyway :'' )
2, For that on 'eco mode' you get 200 miles from a night's charging
3, Acceleration is like 'going down hill'
4, It's good for parking.
5, it's 'sensible driving'

It sounds like a lot of drivel to me, :study: so maybe a  Renault twizy would be more fun, or my electric push bike,
or even a Singer sewing machine,,,

I rest my case "Again" !  :-X 
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

itsme

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 24, 2017, 11:48:42 am
Thanks IDD15, it only confirms my lust for internal combustion cars, I consumed a couple
of 'espresso's' to keep me from nodding off during the video  :-\
    so if I got it right,
1,  It costs around 24.000€ to ruin a Porsche ( I don't like them anyway :'' )
2, For that on 'eco mode' you get 200 miles from a night's charging
3, Acceleration is like 'going down hill'
4, It's good for parking.
5, it's 'sensible driving'

It sounds like a lot of drivel to me, :study: so maybe a  Renault twizy would be more fun, or my electric push bike,
or even a Singer sewing machine,,,

I rest my case "Again" !  :-X
The ONLY sensible option at the moment is dual fuel. Those will still be sold in 2040. By then, I assume new technologies will be online. Fusion is now becoming feasible.

IDD15

Quote from: paulinfrance on August 24, 2017, 11:48:42 am
Thanks IDD15, it only confirms my lust for internal combustion cars, I consumed a couple
of 'espresso's' to keep me from nodding off during the video  :-\
   

Always good to know I have achieved something with my day.
Thank you.
Best Regards
Idd
Oooops!

kinverflyer

Can some one answer me this how much CO2 is created in getting the necessary materials out of the ground to make these batteries vs the getting the materials for petrol or diesel?

IDD15

Quote from: itsme on August 24, 2017, 12:17:47 pm
The ONLY sensible option at the moment is dual fuel. Those will still be sold in 2040. By then, I assume new technologies will be online. Fusion is now becoming feasible.


It would seem quite a lot of people agree with you.   :) The latest sales figures for EV's show that 3 out of every 4 sold is a plug in hybrid variant.  Sales of EV's in total is less than 2% of the total new UK car market.

Clearly there is still a lot of life left in the ICE market, 2040 is a long way off.
Oooops!

EssJay

With a lot of people not being able to 'plug in' for one reason or another, I reckon we'll see a lot more hybrid (non plug-in) vehicles appearing.
No trees were harmed by this post, but some electrons have been slightly inconvenienced

Michael_Rolls

When folk talk about overnight charging, I do wonder. The road we lived is a kids was nearly a mile long, and well over half of it featured terraced houses built before WW1 (ours was 1870 something) .  Many of them had the front door opening straight onto the pavement. Others had a'front garden' perhaps 6 to 8 feet deep. Back then there 163 houses and only 3 cars. Drive down it today and there are cars parked both sides virtually the whole length of the terraced areas. Every one trailing an electric cord over the pavement for overnight charging? And what about flat dwellers without garages - of which there are many?. A letter in the paper today made, very succinctly, the point that I have been trying to get across. We need the upgraded electricity infrastructure BEFORE there are millions of electric cars on the road, not trying to juggle their premature arrival with what they will need.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

paulinfrance

August 24, 2017, 18:57:38 pm #156 Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 19:05:03 pm by paulinfrance
No problem Mike, by the time that the governing powers have sorted out
electric cars that we can afford, and the roads won't be dug up every week,
parking and traffic jams will be childhood memories, we will all have a laser satellite
to charge our cars up, and unlike the American drone targets, the precision
of them will be accurate, so with any luck you won't be turned into dust 'unless'
the idiot next door leaves his on when he drives off and you walk through the beam,,,
( no Scotty jokes please )
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

FrankS

Quote from: kinverflyer on August 24, 2017, 16:59:26 pm
Can some one answer me this how much CO2 is created in getting the necessary materials out of the ground to make these batteries vs the getting the materials for petrol or diesel?


Depends where the oil comes from, how much power is required to get it out of the ground, transport it to a refinery, refine it and then transport it to the fuel station, Small project I work on.offshore Nigeria runs at around 5MW to get about 1,000,000 gallons of crude out of the ground per day, can't comment of the energy to transport it to the refinery, process it and then distribute it.

But these latest changes/targets are not aimed at CO2 but other pollutants in built up areas, NOx and particulates, which hit residents health. Now if we could move people out of built areas that would be another solution.

itsme

Quote from: kinverflyer on August 24, 2017, 16:59:26 pm
Can some one answer me this how much CO2 is created in getting the necessary materials out of the ground to make these batteries vs the getting the materials for petrol or diesel?
this is how its done- obviously there is some energy used. https://www.thebalance.com/lithium-production-2340123

Gordon W

Thanks for sharing that really fascinating and informative article on Li production.  Regarding battery recycling, it looks as if the UK currently has to send its old car lithium batteries abroad to be reprocessed.  Hopefully, by the 2040 deadline the UK will have some reprocessing capability to avoid being held to ransom by overseas operators. 

Right now it looks as if Cornwall might become a local source of Li.   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4136600/50bn-mines-Europe-s-sole-source-lithium.html

Gordon