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Toyota Short Changing the Brits?

Started by meharibear, December 02, 2017, 14:10:18 pm

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meharibear

December 02, 2017, 14:10:18 pm Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 14:16:13 pm by meharibear
I have been considering a hybrid car - So doing my research, I naturally have to start with the Prius as a benchmark.  As a model flyer, like most on here, I am better versed in the niceties of high powered batteries than many on the high street.  The new Prius has now graduated from the metal hydride cells in the previous models to Lithium ones.  However, if you read the very small print you will find it has not in the UK!!

A few points here:

1 Why not?  Is there a good technical reason or are we simply being ripped off?
2 If the specs for our cars are different to everyone elsese's surely we should be told before parting with the money?
3 Should the sales team get better education before being allowed to sell electric?  In some dealers, I got the impression I might have known more than they did!

Finally, I am not buying a Prius anyway, but having driven a couple of other brands, hybrid now makes a lot of sense for may drivers - as long as you can stand the initial higher purchase cost.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

Phil_G

December 02, 2017, 15:17:05 pm #1 Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 16:06:57 pm by Phil_G
What constantly niggles me with all EV companies is the way they lie through their teeth about battery capacity, motor power and range... the maths never, ever add up.
I've just been to the NEC Bike Show, and was taken by the Energica Ego, so I got chatting to their 'technical expert'.

Me: "This is fascinating. I'm interested to know whats the A/H capacity of the battery please?"
Technical expert: "11.7 Kilowatts."
Me: "...erm.. you mean 11.7 kilowatt hours?"
Technical expert: "yes, its 11.7 Kilowatts.  380 volts"
Me: [quick mental rounding, 12kWh / 400v = 30Ah]  "ah ok, ...and the motor is 100 kilowatts?"
Technical expert: "its 136bhp"
Me: "...yes, about 100 kilowatts. I'm pondering duration, 11.7 kilowatt hours will give 100kw for about 7 minutes."
Technical expert: "no, the duration is at least an hour."
Me: "presumably that must be riding very steadily though?"
Technical expert: "no, thats at race speed."
Me: "Sorry I dont follow, 11.7 kWh can only average 11.7 kW if the duration is an hour, am I missing something?"
Technical expert: "We did the TT Zero. We had 30% battery remaining after the race!"
Me: "So you used 70%, thats 8kWh, and a lap is say 20 minutes? Thats only 24kW average..."
Technical expert: "No, its 136bhp, its not a toy scooter, its a true Superbike."
Me: "erm... ok.... well this is fascinating stuff, good luck with the bike...."  [exit stage left]

paulinfrance

I have a couple of electric bikes and they don't keep their promises :'', like my model plane lipo's,
And the pollution caused by the mining and development, also the "so called" recycling, of battery's
I think with too many humans on Earth, it's too little too late. :banghead:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

meharibear

Interestingly the one thing I have found so far is that the salesmen I have met have been (as far as I can tell) honest about the range.  That is, they have always said something like, "the brochure says 30 miles on pure electric, but real life experience is 20"  and when I have looked at reports from real users they have been right..
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

leckyBB

The point with most Hybrids ( I have a Toyota Auris) is that they use whatever motive power is appropriate for the conditions at the time. I don't really expect it to go X number of miles on a full battery charge. The electric power is most suited to slower driving around town which it does well. It is constantly being replenished by the energy recovery systems.

Regarding batteries mine are NiMh with a warranty life of 10 Years I doubt they can offer that on Lithium Ion battery based on our model flying experience.
Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

paulinfrance

For my Bikes '1000' charges,,,  :D  45/70 klm's RUBBISH !  :''
and I saw a car test on TV ( so it must be true ) 300 klm's, actual test less than 200 klm's !  :study:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

maxbradley

Got to say that I have this year changed my Toyota Auris Hybrid Touring Sports........................for another one...of identical spec...
Having driven Volvo XC70's for some 20 years I expected on the FIRST purchase to be disappointed....
How wrong I was...
It has done EVERYTING I asked for and more....
Comfort..... Better handling..... Enjoyable drive...... Performance ...... Boot Capacity, if anything slightly better... Economy.....
Quality......ALL above expectations
Really appreciate the Class roof and Leather.....Excellent......
Must admit I have enjoyed the technology too.....
Nimh???? as said above with the guarantee... Who cares??????
??? next Car in some years..... Probably same again!!
Max

The Stig

Last January, BMW lent me an i3 for the day , so went touring knowing it would tell me if I was running out of battery , ( it had the small ic thing in the back for emergency )
But I was very impressed , quick and quiet  did 120 rural miles and it said I had 19 left when I dropped it back,.( the IC bit was not used )

bit expensive but very good fun .If they did 400 miles on a charge I would get one , but just have to be content with the Tesla  ;) 

cheers

ludwig

son in law has the BMW electric with the range extender and he is well pleased with it, very quick, very quiet and a good ride.
it even went well with my great weight aboard.
it's a company car so no problems for him over battery life, I could be tempted myself, money permitting.

paulinfrance

So "maxbradley " have you worked out what it cost per mile, depreciation etc ?, I would be interested to know.
and the Stig, obviously you don't watch your old teams new TV program, electric cars were tested on it and the bmw came last !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mGBOIMvv_M
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

The Stig

I would put up with Clarkson if I had an i3,

But my TV does not get that station , too busy paying off the Tesla !

cheers