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Biggin Hill Holding Pattern

Started by Bad Raven, February 20, 2018, 16:17:01 pm

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Bad Raven

OK, this could easily degenerate into a racial joke session, so if you feel that way inclined, keep it to yourself and go elsewhere please.

Living not far from the Biggin Hill "Stack" for Heathrow, and with an interest in aviation (surprise), I watch Flight Radar a bit (well, a lot, as it's often open in a window while "working").

Over a long period of time I have noticed that Alitalia pilots seem to adopt a completely different policy with regard the stack format. While most airlines follow a rigid and classical by the book oval racetrack with near perfectly overlaying circuits and geometrically aligned entry and exit, by comparison Alitalia pilots seem to take their craft all over the sky in roughly the right area but with nowhere near the accuracy of almost all the other airlines. This is done regardless of what else is using the stack. Their height management is no different it's the ground positioning that is far less rigid.

I repeat, this observation comes from long term, not the odd occasion, and I'm genuinely puzzled why this should be so.  Obviously this is an easy target for cheap jokes, but anyone with positive non-joking comment that might explain why?
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

Michael_Rolls

I don't understand this - if they aren't following the standard racetrack, doesn't that imply danger? Like driving the wrong way up a motorway?
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

itsme

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on February 20, 2018, 16:40:16 pm
I don't understand this - if they aren't following the standard racetrack, doesn't that imply danger? Like driving the wrong way up a motorway?
Mike
Its not a steady track he means Mike. Like if youre driving and spill hot spaghetti down your......oops :embarassed:

Bad Raven

Quote from: itsme on February 20, 2018, 16:53:46 pm
Its not a steady track he means Mike. Like if youre driving and spill hot spaghetti down your......oops :embarassed:


Yes, that's exactly what I mean (apart from the spaghetti joke!), for example the end turns at differing radii, or coming out of a 180 end early to fly the "straight" leg as a double angle.  With the one today that sparked me to bother commenting there was at the end of one 180 a much bigger radius than normal that then had a pronounced "S" in the straight to get back roughly on racetrack, though the "S" was overshot which ended with a narrower distance across the opposing straights (though not close!), to then have a tighter than normal 180 at the other end but which again drifted wider than true track. 

Some months back there was one (Alitalia) in particular that was so "random" that I'd have been out with the breathalyser if in authority and observed it.

The majority of pilots (or their autopilots?) manage a track so accurate its sometimes difficult to see how many times they have circulated. Not it seems Alitalia aircraft.  Maybe they like flying pure manual?

None of this seems to me to be remotely dangerous, just far less accurate than normal and over time the realisation that its one airline sparked the comment and question.
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

British Victory

Rather than speculate, wouldn't it be worth a quick e-mail to the pr dept of alitalia. If they are remotely like my final employer they will take your query in all seriousness and could even answer your questions (ultimately).
there's only one f in RCMF,
               John

FrankS

It's pretty boring for the passengers when you get put in a holding pattern delaying your arrival, maybe the pilots are doing some guided site seeing to keep there fares entertained.

British Victory

Quote from: FrankS on February 20, 2018, 22:23:44 pm
It's pretty boring for the passengers when you get put in a holding pattern delaying your arrival, maybe the pilots are doing some guided site seeing to keep there fares entertained.

Frank all flights are boring most of the time
there's only one f in RCMF,
               John

itsme

Quote from: British Victory on February 20, 2018, 23:27:23 pm
Frank all flights are boring most of the time
And that is GOOD.. :ev
For interesting flights I came back on the final holiday flight (only half full) from Malaga one November back many years ago. The captain came on the tannoy (at 3 am!) ans said the sky was the clearest he had ever seen it over France, and he had received permission to drop to 5.000 (If I remember) feet and do a circuit of Paris. We saw the entire city, Sacre Cour, the Seine with boats- and saw the lights switch off on the tower. It was a fantastic trip. I think these days you would be shot down by a Rafale if you did that.

Bad Raven

Quote from: FrankS on February 20, 2018, 22:23:44 pm
It's pretty boring for the passengers when you get put in a holding pattern delaying your arrival, maybe the pilots are doing some guided site seeing to keep there fares entertained.


Not that much to see in that quite rural locality, doubt my house is listed!

On a BA flight a few years ago a "very nice young man" steward obviously thought exactly that though.  This was before BA had their own Terminal at Heathrow but they were firmly pro Heathrow and anti Gatwick. 

Camping up the accent to the max, amongst the constant "if you look......" narrative from reaching the UK coast was............

"We are passing over the coast near Brighton, such a nice place"

then

"If you look to your left you will see Crawley Airport" (Gatwick put down)

and later

"Passengers on the left hand side, if you now look down you will see the Millenium Wheel, and if you look closer you will see the Millenium Hamster in it.  Passengers on the right should just talk amongst yourselves"

There was a noticeably lighter mood as we waited the obligatory five minutes on the stand while the ground crew debated whether to connect the air bridge or drink more tea.



On a different occasion on the Southend/Essex stack I saw the QE Bridge (Dartford Crossing) five times, now that WAS boring!!

The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

Bad Raven

Quote from: itsme on February 21, 2018, 08:14:02 am
and saw the lights switch off on the tower.


That was supposed to give the missile system a better lock.......................
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

itsme

It was years before all the terrorist rubbish. Kids were still going in to the cockpit. It was something that could never happen now and I'm pleased I saw it. Made up for the crap Spanish holiday.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk


The Beakmeister

I would love a boring flight,, I am doing 4 or more domestic flights per week in India,,, to date everyone has been a cross between an adventure and a trip into the twighlight zone :uk:
There are only two types of model aircraft, those that have crashed and those that are going to crash !

itsme

Quote from: The Beakmeister on February 21, 2018, 11:18:45 am
I would love a boring flight,, I am doing 4 or more domestic flights per week in India,,, to date everyone has been a cross between an adventure and a trip into the twighlight zone :uk:
any cows on board?  ;D

lanicopter

I think they like to be called Stewardesses nowadays Bob
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

itsme

Quote from: lanicopter on February 26, 2018, 00:29:01 am
I think they like to be called Stewardesses nowadays Bob
Oh dear. Youre in deep doo doo....

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: lanicopter on February 26, 2018, 00:29:01 am
I think they like to be called Stewardesses nowadays Bob

Vairy brave - stooopid, but vairy brave...................
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

paulinfrance

Quote from: lanicopter on February 26, 2018, 00:29:01 am
I think they like to be called Stewardesses nowadays Bob
[/quote
]So you only fly ryan air ?.

I have had a few flights in cockpits, years ago if you asked and wore short trousers ( no anoraks needed )
you were welcomed, after of course the Captain had done what was needed to a hostess  ^-^

My Brother let me come to the cockpit to take the p*** out of the strict Swiss air German first officers,, ,,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly