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Roadworks Speed Limits

Started by Bad Raven, July 16, 2018, 06:57:16 am

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Bad Raven


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44837339

Not far from me is a stretch of Dual Carriageway, "A" road. It has embankment countryside both sides, NO junctions or crossing points, and it has wide lanes and sweeping bends. Never EVER see pedestrians or cyclists or horses or other wildlife (roadkill or not.).

At least, it used to be dual, and national speed limit. 

Some time ago now it was reduced to one lane each way with white hatching which straightens the far from tight bends, and reduced to what feels when you drive it a ridiculously low 50mph.

Now for MONTHS it has had the hatched areas coned off and a supposedly temporary 30mph limit posted for its whole length., but there's no signs of work (at all), no police presence, no cameras, and critically no perceivable need for why a limit as low as 30 is posted.

At least once a week my wife has to use it. Trying to be law abiding, she drives as near 30-35 as the tail gating headlight flashing horn blowing other drivers allow.

And they wonder why drivers get stressed at "roadworks" with nothing happening, as if you are law abiding you get thoroughly abused and put into dangerous situations by the mob.



The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

Brian Cooper

Quote from: Bad Raven on July 16, 2018, 06:57:16 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44837339

And they wonder why drivers get stressed at "roadworks" with nothing happening, as if you are law abiding you get thoroughly abused and put into dangerous situations by the mob.


The "mob" is generally quite easy to spot.  They will be driving a BMW or an Audi and will very probably be wearing a baseball cap backwards.
The miscreants could also, of course, be in a white van.

B.C.

Chippie

It may be worth getting in touch with the Council responsible for the roadworks and asking them what is happening. Maybe explain your experience and the distress it it causing. Sadly it may take an incident before anything is done....but thats not really the best way of resolving....
The Police wont do anything, they are not responsible for the set speed limit, they just enforce it....
Eccentric millionaire Financed by 'er indoors'
Site Admin and forum moderator

Michael_Rolls

In today's paper it is reported that the government is considering advising that on Sundays when there are no workers present teh 50 limit could go up to 60. I think artificially low limits 'to protect the work force' when there is no sign of a work force must be one of the most frustrating things to come across whilst driving. A few years back Veronica and I were returning home after visiting down south and must have come across something like 15 to 20 miles of roadworks without the slightest vestige of any work being nor anyone to do it - and 50 limit with dire warning that average speed cameras were after you!
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

THE BLACKBIRD

I travelled down the M6 on Saturday and hit a traffic jam, in it for nearly an hour
What had caused it, an accident on the opposit carriageway,
People slowing right down to goggle at it
Disgusting morons
The man that never made a mistake
Never made anything

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: THE BLACKBIRD on July 16, 2018, 10:29:21 am
I travelled down the M6 on Saturday and hit a traffic jam, in it for nearly an hour
What had caused it, an accident on the opposit carriageway,
People slowing right down to goggle at it
Disgusting morons

I have never understood that
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

FlyinBrian

I think all speed limits need a rethink as does the layout of roads.

I live in a fairly wide residential road (30mph) in Skegness with double yellow lines on one side, even with cars parked on the side they are allowed there is room for two normal (Up to SUV size) cars to pass without issue.

However the road is nice and straight for about half a mile, there are many driveways that are off this road and it has has junctions and footpaths which are well used by locals and tourists.

This leads to two issues
1/ the road is seen as a short cut by locals who in the hope of re-joining the main traffic ahead of where they left it drive at stupid speeds 50 is common and sometimes more.

2/ As the road is wide people overtake, I am just waiting for the day when some ti* is overtaking and another whizzes out of a junction or driveway.

The road should have some sort of traffic calming either chicanes or sleeping Bobbies and the road could be made a 20mph zone without any inconvenience - except to the prestige German car drivers and souped up Vauxhall Corsas/Ford Fiestas

OTOH why at night on a virtually empty dual carriageway or motorway are there 70mph limits?

I am not a speed merchant ( had my moments when younger) but 70 is boring and seems so slow after a few miles, I normally trot along at about 80 - 85 on roads I know but with the dreaded revenue safety cameras everywhere It's very risky if you don't know the area.
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

Michael_Rolls

Our village is a 20 mph zone - not that you would think it. Most cars go through at 30+ and a fair number of HGV as well. There is a long, straight approach to the village from the south and it is very slightly downhill, so even HGVs can get up a reasonable turn of speed, speed which the drivers seem very loath to bleed off.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

itsme

I was overtaking two vans on the A1M yesterday and noticed the speed camera on a bridge. Looked down and was doing around 78 according to my speedo, which is 5mph fast. Waiting for the letter....
Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 16, 2018, 11:16:48 am
I think all speed limits need a rethink as does the layout of roads.

I live in a fairly wide residential road (30mph) in Skegness with double yellow lines on one side, even with cars parked on the side they are allowed there is room for two normal (Up to SUV size) cars to pass without issue.

However the road is nice and straight for about half a mile, there are many driveways that are off this road and it has has junctions and footpaths which are well used by locals and tourists.

This leads to two issues
1/ the road is seen as a short cut by locals who in the hope of re-joining the main traffic ahead of where they left it drive at stupid speeds 50 is common and sometimes more.

2/ As the road is wide people overtake, I am just waiting for the day when some ti* is overtaking and another whizzes out of a junction or driveway.

The road should have some sort of traffic calming either chicanes or sleeping Bobbies and the road could be made a 20mph zone without any inconvenience - except to the prestige German car drivers and souped up Vauxhall Corsas/Ford Fiestas

OTOH why at night on a virtually empty dual carriageway or motorway are there 70mph limits?

I am not a speed merchant ( had my moments when younger) but 70 is boring and seems so slow after a few miles, I normally trot along at about 80 - 85 on roads I know but with the dreaded revenue safety cameras everywhere It's very risky if you don't know the area.


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paulinfrance

I just went down the local industrial estate that with tomtom it's a has become a rat run, and now 30 klm/h !,
the Police were hiding in the trees on the roundabout 'spinning around'  ;D trying to catch drivers in three direction,
luckily I was in my wife's car  :embarassed: as usually on my motor bike it would have been a costly ride,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

The Saint. (Owen)

Quote from: itsme on July 17, 2018, 13:25:16 pm
I was overtaking two vans on the A1M yesterday and noticed the speed camera on a bridge. Looked down and was doing around 78 according to my speedo, which is 5mph fast. Waiting for the letter....
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I think it will be very unlikely that you'll get a letter for that if the speed limit is 70mph.  :)
Electrickery is the work of the devil.
Proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

pooh

July 17, 2018, 14:49:33 pm #11 Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 14:52:20 pm by pooh
Quote from: itsme on July 17, 2018, 13:25:16 pm
I was overtaking two vans on the A1M yesterday and noticed the speed camera on a bridge. Looked down and was doing around 78 according to my speedo, which is 5mph fast. Waiting for the letter....
Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk


you should be ok, whilst the 10% plus one digit tolerance isn't a definite, you'd be very unlucky to get hit for 73mph.I hope so cos I was just slowing down from overtaking (behind another car doing the same) to see a roadside camera, glanced at the satnav and that was just dropping from 79 to 75. I think I am right in assuming a satnav is accurate to within a digit or so.

A magistrate friend of mine told me that there are some guidelines on speed penalties. IIRC 38 in a 30mph gets you points, no speed awareness course option, same at 59 in a 50 area, and the 70 area is 80mph. No promises that is correct.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

SteveBB

Quote from: itsme on July 17, 2018, 13:25:16 pm
I was overtaking two vans on the A1M yesterday and noticed the speed camera on a bridge. Looked down and was doing around 78 according to my speedo, which is 5mph fast. Waiting for the letter....
Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk


I was driving down the M1 on a rarely empty carriageway several years ago at about 80 and overtaken by a police car with no lights going, and it just carried on, he was probably upper 90's 100 ish.. You'd be very unlucky to get tagged for 78mph.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: SteveBB on July 17, 2018, 15:22:57 pm
I was driving down the M1 on a rarely empty carriageway several years ago at about 80 and overtaken by a police car with no lights going, and it just carried on, he was probably upper 90's 100 ish.. You'd be very unlucky to get tagged for 78mph.

Hang about - with no lights on it might have been because the driver didn't see the need for them due to traffic conditions, How do you know his speed to scene might not have saved somebody's life?
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

SteveBB

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on July 17, 2018, 18:21:23 pm
Hang about - with no lights on it might have been because the driver didn't see the need for them due to traffic conditions, How do you know his speed to scene might not have saved somebody's life?
Mike


I have no idea why he didn't have the blues going Mike, but it  wasn't the first time I've been over the limit and overtaken by a police car and nothing happened to me. I think most just let it go as long as you're not weaving in and out or tailgating.

On that occasion I didn't see anything ahead so maybe he turned off further up the road? Dunno.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

itsme

Quote from: pooh on July 17, 2018, 14:49:33 pm
you should be ok, whilst the 10% plus one digit tolerance isn't a definite, you'd be very unlucky to get hit for 73mph.I hope so cos I was just slowing down from overtaking (behind another car doing the same) to see a roadside camera, glanced at the satnav and that was just dropping from 79 to 75. I think I am right in assuming a satnav is accurate to within a digit or so.

A magistrate friend of mine told me that there are some guidelines on speed penalties. IIRC 38 in a 30mph gets you points, no speed awareness course option, same at 59 in a 50 area, and the 70 area is 80mph. No promises that is correct.
Hope so. Watch this space....

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FlyinBrian

Quote from: SteveBB on July 17, 2018, 15:22:57 pm
I was driving down the M1 on a rarely empty carriageway several years ago at about 80 and overtaken by a police car with no lights going, and it just carried on, he was probably upper 90's 100 ish.. You'd be very unlucky to get tagged for 78mph.


In the early 90's I had a BMW 325i and was on my way to my home in Maidstone from work in London, , I was on the M20 travelling downhill near Swanley, It was about 10pm and the road was empty and I was doing circa 85 when I was passed by a Rover 820 (yes really) doing a good 15 mph more than me.

Just after this I noticed a white car in my mirror  about 200 yards back so I gradually slowed to close to 70 where upon the blue lights came on and I was stopped.

After the usual preamble I mentioned the Rover that had passed me, Mr plod told me they had already locked onto me so had to let him go!  :-X
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

paulinfrance

Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 17, 2018, 22:54:54 pm
In the early 90's I had a BMW 325i and was on my way to my home in Maidstone from work in London, , I was on the M20 travelling downhill near Swanley, It was about 10pm and the road was empty and I was doing circa 85 when I was passed by a Rover 820 (yes really) doing a good 15 mph more than me.

Just after this I noticed a white car in my mirror  about 200 yards back so I gradually slowed to close to 70 where upon the blue lights came on and I was stopped.

After the usual preamble I mentioned the Rover that had passed me, Mr plod told me they had already locked onto me so had to let him go!  :-X



No he got his priorities right, a  Rover verses a bmw drive, 'No Contest',,,


Ps It's not personnel,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

FlyinBrian

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 18, 2018, 06:06:19 am

No he got his priorities right, a  Rover verses a bmw drive, 'No Contest',,,


Ps It's not personnel,,

:D

But I think that cartoon is more appropriate to Audi drivers these days
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

paulinfrance

Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 18, 2018, 16:50:04 pm
:D

But I think that cartoon is more appropriate to Audi drivers these days


Not over here, Audi and Golf drivers are the same, cap the wrong way around and the driver sitting in the back set. :D
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Gaspin

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 18, 2018, 17:14:20 pm
Not over here, Audi and Golf drivers are the same, cap the wrong way around and the driver sitting in the back set. :D

I thought it was just their brain sitting on the back seat.
Getting back to cones on the motorway, I spent time working on motorway maintenance and new work some years back and the speed of some vehicles both commercial and cars was truly amazing; trucks at 70MPH really do suck you in towards them and it was not unusual to find 50m. of cones missing on return to work or on rare occasions the vehicle damaged and abandoned in the work area and in some cases theft of equipment from a coned off area, some one risking life and limb for second hand tools. The dead areas, don't forget concrete needs a day or two to harden enough for traffic hence no people around.

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: Gaspin on July 22, 2018, 06:41:20 am
. The dead areas, don't forget concrete needs a day or two to harden enough for traffic hence no people around.

Hadn't thought of that - but surely the concrete doesn't care what speed passing traffic is doing?
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

FlyinBrian

What I really hate both in roadworks and "congestion" is the information boards and gantry's displaying 50 mph and everything is virtually stationary.  I spent almost six hours in such traffic on Friday on the A1M, M25, and the Dartford Xing. Just got back to proper Mway speeds when, approaching Clacket Lane services, a "Traffic Officer" vehicle pulled of the hard shoulder, put all his lights on and started weaving across all lanes Displaying a  DO NOT PASS sign and brought the traffic to a halt 'cos some utter T*t has run out of fuel about 3/4 mile before the services. One of the ossifers came and spoke to people in the first few cars in the Que to say they were hooking said t*ts vehicle up to tow him:- , he returned about 10mins later and said once we start towing you will be free to pass and to go as quick as you like! - I took him at his word   :ev and am expecting the speeding fine in a day or two.

OTOH I did the return journey this morning leaving at 6:30 am and did not see any speed restrictions except for a short stretch on the a14/M11 area. Took halt the time inc a stop for a bacon buttie and coffee.
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

antonnick

July 25, 2018, 15:27:25 pm #23 Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 15:32:04 pm by antonnick
I find generally speaking that the GB roadworks on the motoways are well set up and an example to the rest of europe.  The cones are back-to-back marking the ways clearly. At changes of lane direction a gantry floodlight is operated at night. Mostly temp road stud reflectors mark the lanes. There is a 24 hr breakdown truck standing by in case someone breaks down to minimise traffic hold ups. The speed limit signs, often electronic and lit up clearly inform you as a driver.

We have markers at min 5 metre intervals such that it is not always clear what the correct lane is - follow the car in front is the solution.
Autobahn are seldom lit and there are no reflective studs anywhere. Temporary yellow lines are stuck on he cariageway and they have priority over the while lines.
But at night if it is raining, the yellow and white look the same  - follow the car in front is the solution.
No temp lighting is ever installed on changes of lane at start or end of roadworks. It can be very confusing especially at night - follow the car in front is the solution.
Speed limit and other warning signs are only reflective. The reflection is sometimes so strong it dazzles.

As long as the driver of the car in front knows what he is doing, everything is ok.
Sicher, kann ich fliegen!
I am not a "guy" and I was never a "kid".

itsme

As long as the car in front is not you...
incidentally, i seem to have escaped the speeding ticket last Monday!

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: itsme on July 25, 2018, 15:46:51 pm
As long as the car in front is not you...
incidentally, i seem to have escaped the speeding ticket last Monday!

Good news!
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

THE BLACKBIRD

Give it time, the last one I got while over here and driving my sons car, I got blinked at 37 mph took weeks to come through, I was almost to the poin of going home to Cyprus  in fact I had to deal with from there, after a lot of emails between plod and myself they dropped it, 😇
The man that never made a mistake
Never made anything

paulinfrance

It's a good service here, :D when my wife gets her 'usual' ticket of 2 klm/h over the limit at Montpellier
( the same radar in the same place every time ) her ticket arrives before for she gets home due to the accidents on the AutoRoute 100 klms away,,  :-X
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Michael_Rolls

Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

PDR

Quote from: itsme on July 25, 2018, 15:46:51 pm
As long as the car in front is not you...
incidentally, i seem to have escaped the speeding ticket last Monday!


Don't count your guinea-fowl quite yet - the NIP can be sent up to 14 days after the alleged crime against humanity, which means that the courts will usually accept it is still valid if it arrives at the address of the registered keeper up to 17 days afterwards. And if there is a postal strike, or you're away from home or some other circumstance that prevents you from personally getting the NIP at that time it's what the lawyers technically term "tough titty".

A colleague got snapped at 36 in a 30 limit a couple of hours before heading to the states for a 1 year secondment. He lives alone (he's a QA guy - most of them are single :ev) and ha his mail redirected to the post-office keep-safe system. He didn't receive his mail several days after he returned, and in the mean tim he was stopped and arrested for driving whilst disqualified, because in his absence his lack of response to letters and summondses had rather escalated. It took several weeks of frantic negotiations and £1800 in legal costs before a less aggressive judge agreed to set aside the original convictions in return for a guilty plea to a new count of speeding, a £500 fine and 3 points. Technoically he shouldn't habve done this, because the "new" count of speeding was more than 6 months old, and under the magistrates act all charges must have their initial hearing in front of a magistrate less than six months after the offence "became apparent". But they all agreed to overlook this detail...

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

itsme

Feeling confident here- last one I got around five years ago (47 in a 40) via a mobile the letter came 36 hours later!  Its now ten days...even our post is not as bad as that. The speed awareness course, however, lasted around two millennia.....

paulinfrance

Quote from: Michael_Rolls on July 26, 2018, 06:59:29 am
Doesn't she notice?
Mike


I have looked it up, and it must be somewhere behind a 50 klm/h speed sign, on a 4 line road (dual carriageway )  coming up to a round about, it's 110 then 90 then 70 and the last 50,,, Here's a few hiding on straight roars, nothing easier,,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

THE BLACKBIRD

The man that never made a mistake
Never made anything

SteveBB

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 26, 2018, 10:37:44 am
I have looked it up, and it must be somewhere behind a 50 klm/h speed sign, on a 4 line road (dual carriageway )  coming up to a round about, it's 110 then 90 then 70 and the last 50,,, Here's a few hiding on straight roars, nothing easier,,,



Presumably they just fine you? And it isn't because they consider it dangerous to speed, because if they did, they wouldn't hide, they'd flag you down to tell you to slow down THEN fine you. So it's just a cash cow.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.

paulinfrance

No a fine, of which the cost on the first of july went from 45€ to 68€ and -1 point on your 12 point licence, the 45€ is if you pay within 2 weeks, if not, in a year or so you will find yourself carless and Homeless,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

THE BLACKBIRD

I lived in North Cyprus before I moved to the south, I flew into the airport there and when I got to the passport control I was arrested, much to my puzzlement  and a little worry
It turned out to be a speeding ticket that had not been paid, the thing is they don't let you know, until you come in through the border,
Then I had 24 hours to pay it or else, it was already 9 months old
The man that never made a mistake
Never made anything

Bad Raven

Back to excessive road works restrictions.

At present (and apparently till 2020!!) the M23 has been reduced to narrowed lanes and a 50 average speed camera monitored limit, Northbound AND Southbound. 

Critically, this spreads all the way from Gatwick Airport to/from the M25 (or, more technically, a "bloody long way").

The Gatwick M23 spur is reduced to 30mph.

I understand this is all to do away with the hard shoulder and make it into a fourth lane.

Absolutely no sign of any works or access taking place over 99.99% of it as of yesterday 16:45 - 17:15 or on last Thurs @ 06:30 - 07:00.

So..........jokes aside................. Why was work still not taking place several weeks into the restriction (so well beyond and reasonable "readying" period)?  Why is it necc to take both directions down at once?  And, for TWO YEARS?????!


The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

itsme

Quote from: Bad Raven on July 27, 2018, 07:52:34 am
Back to excessive road works restrictions.

At present (and apparently till 2020!!) the M23 has been reduced to narrowed lanes and a 50 average speed camera monitored limit, Northbound AND Southbound. 

Critically, this spreads all the way from Gatwick Airport to/from the M25 (or, more technically, a "bloody long way").

The Gatwick M23 spur is reduced to 30mph.

I understand this is all to do away with the hard shoulder and make it into a fourth lane.

Absolutely no sign of any works or access taking place over 99.99% of it as of yesterday 16:45 - 17:15 or on last Thurs @ 06:30 - 07:00.

So..........jokes aside................. Why was work still not taking place several weeks into the restriction (so well beyond and reasonable "readying" period)?  Why is it necc to take both directions down at once?  And, for TWO YEARS?????!
For your comfort, safety and convenience of course. Get used to it, we've had two years of that on the M1 for 'upgrading to smart motorways' which is simply better speed cameras.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk


Bad Raven

Had no practical other option today, so return trip over the M23 "Works" length.  Wife spotted for work actually taking place.

At one place ONLY there were two men looking at the grass edge off the closed hard shoulder/ part nearside lane.  For this, ten miles each way is disrupted.

They must have had calls, as new illuminated signs both ends were stating " Verge Survey Taking Place in Day Time".

20 miles of "verge", two men.

Great.......................................

I have super quality dashcam footage of a Minibus with Taxi plates undertaking the car in front approaching the Gatwick turn off, violently swerving across two lanes to the outside through a gap not much longer than it, overtaking, and swerving back to the nearside now clearly exit only marked lane. And NO, after that it didn't exit, after undertaking two more cars it swerved out and continued towards Brighton. Hopefully others may be interested, inc the council that licensed him (and so gave him credibility).



The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

PDR

Don't know about the M23, but the roadworks on the eastbound M2, M20 and M26 are part of the preparations to reduce the net cost of Brexit.

They're installing pay & display parking ticket machines...

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...