February 25, 2020, 18:53:14 pm

RCMF Donations

Enjoy using RCMF? How about a wee donation to help us keep you in the style to which you've become accustomed?

Welcome to RCMF. Please login or sign up.

February 25, 2020, 18:53:14 pm

Login with username, password and session length

More drone nonsense

Started by Michael_Rolls, December 20, 2018, 11:40:14 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Michael_Rolls

So, drones closed Gatwick airport - how bloody stupid can the people using these things illegally get?
Mike

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46623754
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

paulinfrance

What beats me is that with all of the bombing scares, police everywhere, ATC must at least have one pair of
binoculars, how the hell did they miss find the idiot flying it
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: paulinfrance on December 20, 2018, 11:49:15 am
What beats me is that with all of the bombing scares, police everywhere, ATC must at least have one pair of
binoculars, how the hell did they miss find the idiot flying it

Surely, despite it being illegal, to fly a FPV beyond visual range could be the reason?
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

Michael_Rolls

Oh, and police are quoted as saying that they do not regard it as terrorist action, but do regard it as an act of 'deliberate disruption'. How I wish these bloody things had never been invented.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

No doubt the people who don't fly over Gatwick will be punished.

I can guarantee you that you will not find an FPV pilot anywhere who thinks this is funny or acceptable. The person(s) in charge of those aircraft need to be dealt with harshly.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: lanicopter on December 20, 2018, 12:25:40 pm
No doubt the people who don't fly over Gatwick will be punished.

I can guarantee you that you will not find an FPV pilot anywhere who thinks this is funny or acceptable. The person(s) in charge of those aircraft need to be dealt with harshly.

I KNOW that - but so what? These devices are totally outwith any normal modelling activity of any normal level of sophistication. I warned years ago that I could see them as a threat to our hobby - it gives me no pleasure to be proved right so dramatically.
Until Dunblane, I was a target pistol shooter. One deranged individual was all it took to destroy that element of my hobby for everyone forevermore. The ability of  drones to cause airliners to crash exceeds the number of deaths from legally held handguns by hundreds to one.
Thanks to the Gatwick incident - which seems not to be over yet - we have hundreds of thousands of the general public after the blood of drone operators - and I for one don't blame them, just as I understood the post Dunblane reaction to handgun ownership, much as it cost me a lot of enjoyment
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

Perhaps I should fly a balsa plane over Gatwick - it's certainly easy enough to do. Will you still be actively seeking a ban?

As I say, this is a problem with the idiots in charge of the aircraft - not the aircraft themselves. The person in charge needs to be punished, and punished harshly. I don't - it wasn't me.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

PDR

The reports so far talk of "large drones" which seem to have been on-station for a couple of hours or more. If these reports are accurate then these are not toys - they are commercial drones (costing in the 10s of thousands of pounds) because the toys don't have the endurance or the lift-margin to carry bigger batteries to create the endurance. If these ARE commercial-class drones then what we are seeing is not misbehaving spotty teenagers - it would have to be a deliberate act of disruption, either criminal or terrorist IMHO.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

lanicopter

Thanks for posting that PDR - i was just discussing this with my wife and something wasn't stacking up if they were consumer drones because surely the duration would lend itself towards the drones having to return to home for a new battery. They could quite easily be tracked, even via some goggles (which I'm sure the authorities have) to see where it landed - this would happen multiple times in the ~15 hours this has been going on.

Interesting for sure.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

kinverflyer


Michael_Rolls

Quote from: lanicopter on December 20, 2018, 12:58:32 pm
Perhaps I should fly a balsa plane over Gatwick - it's certainly easy enough to do. Will you still be actively seeking a ban?

As I say, this is a problem with the idiots in charge of the aircraft - not the aircraft themselves. The person in charge needs to be punished, and punished harshly. I don't - it wasn't me.

Congratulations for not seeing the wood for the trees. I, and others, warned about these wretched devices and your reaction is totally expected and totally off the mark. The police are saying that this is deliberate disruption and given the endurance of the device/s that does seem to be the case. I think that we can anticipate some sort of ban - I didn't shoot anybody, but Dunblane destroyed that aspect of my hobby. This is likely to have the same effect
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

As I said in the other thread, I feel the ban after Dunblane was a silly reaction and I'm sure you'd have preferred to have kept your hobby.

Drones are being treat the same way which is also ridiculous because they have many legal uses and are a rewarding pastime to the VAST majority of people. We shouldn't allow the actions of a few morons dictate how the world treats the majority of its citizens.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

firefox

Maybe it is Amazon clearing the skies?  :D
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool......

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: lanicopter on December 20, 2018, 20:09:39 pm
As I said in the other thread, I feel the ban after Dunblane was a silly reaction and I'm sure you'd have preferred to have kept your hobby.

Drones are being treat the same way which is also ridiculous because they have many legal uses and are a rewarding pastime to the VAST majority of people. We shouldn't allow the actions of a few morons dictate how the world treats the majority of its citizens.

That's a sad underestimation of the world as it is. Just look at the security measures at airports now compared to 40 years ago - and why? PRECISELY because of the actions of a small number of morons.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

Exactly - and it's rubbish. If we start banning everything what will we have left? We need a proportional response - this idiot should have the book thrown at him (using the existing regulations which absolutely prohibit this behaviour).
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

Michael_Rolls

Quote from: lanicopter on December 20, 2018, 21:10:48 pm
Exactly - and it's rubbish. If we start banning everything what will we have left? We need a proportional response - this idiot should have the book thrown at him (using the existing regulations which absolutely prohibit this behaviour).

I totally agree with you - but I very much doubt that that is what will happen. And I don't think whoever is doing this is an irresponsible idiot - it's far too serious to be viewed in that light. This is the work of somebody who is either totally stupid - even insane - or, in my opinion far more likely, someone who is creating a major incident deliberately for whatever reason that suits his agenda.
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

I thought that there might be an agenda in place - i.e. cause disruption at the airport, cause the terminal to fill with 1000s of travellers and then detonate some sort of explosive to cause maximum carnage but thankfully that does not seem to have happened.

I just dont understand how:
a) the drone has stayed aloft for so long
b) the drone hasn't been able to get tracked to a landing location when it retreats for a new battery

They did manage to track a drone back in November back to the operators garden after he flew near a police helicopter ... something is amiss.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

pooh

Just imagine you are a foreign country wanting to see how you might de-stabilise a rival. Close down their airports with drones flying nearby. Not cheap drones. Not toys. All at the same time.

I find the concept very scary, and not at all unrealistic.

Forget what it means to our hobby, it goes a lot further than that, and the last couple of days shows just how to do it.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

Michael_Rolls

Gatwick has now reopened but no comment as to whether the drone/s has/ve been neutralised. The earliest reports cited two drones, but only one has been referred to subsequently
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

lanicopter

Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

Michael_Rolls

Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

itsme

This tickled me....

[attachimg=1]

Phil_G

I think its aliens, not drones  :)

EssJay

Interesting to see that on Sky Thriller HD this afternoon is a 2017 movie starring Sean Bean, and it's called 'Drone'.
Here's the synopsis........

"A contract drone pilot who's spent his career conducting covert operations from his suburban hometown is finally forced to confront his actions".

Do you reckon someone at Sky knows more than they're letting on? [emoji23][emoji23]
No trees were harmed by this post, but some electrons have been slightly inconvenienced

lanicopter

Genius marketing idea actually! International coverage for the sake of purchasing a relatively cheap drone and flying it around for a couple of hours...
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

itsme

Quote from: lanicopter on December 21, 2018, 15:32:43 pm
Genius marketing idea actually! International coverage for the sake of purchasing a relatively cheap drone and flying it around for a couple of hours...
want to hear my theories about the earth being flat?  :co

JohnP

Who remembers when Gatwick was last shut down for a few days?

It was April 2010, when the Icelandic volcano with the unpronouncable name (and one I wouldn't know where to begin spelling!) erupted shutting down jet aviation across Europe.  On the Sunday Gatwick ATC, probably bored out of their minds by then, but still on duty, were allowing general aviation pilots to come and fly over, though "not below 1,000 feet" as I recall.  A friend took me up in a Cessna 150 and I got some shots not unlike that in itsme's earlier post.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]
Quantum est in fenestra canini ?

itsme

shows the massive size of this. A drone would be almost impossible to find, especially if the owner was FPV a couple of miles away. Radar, however, should have shown it up.

Michael_Rolls

It's many years since I flew into or out if Gatwick - you forget just how big the place is
Mike
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

PDR

...and as you can see - it's 'kin miles from where the public wait wit their phone-cameras and the airside areas where they said the drone(s) were operating...

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

itsme

Quote from: PDR on December 23, 2018, 10:01:25 am
...and as you can see - it's 'kin miles from where the public wait wit their phone-cameras and the airside areas where they said the drone(s) were operating...

PDR
Its actually 3k from the terminal to the end of the runway, even if you had a direct line of sight (which you dont) which puts any drone around 4-5 k. You would need a bloody good telephoto lens to see that. Ooops its gone...

needforspeeduk

It seems the main "suspect" was a local Model Flyer (and his missus) who happened to have an old photo of a model Hughes 300 in his Facebook profile.  The boys in blue at their best. Fills you with confidence for when we have to register our models next year.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6524457/Police-continue-quiz-double-glazing-worker-Gatwick-drone.html

https://news.sky.com/story/couple-held-and-later-cleared-over-gatwick-airport-drone-disruption-speak-out-11591028

lanicopter

Quote from: itsme on December 23, 2018, 10:14:30 am
Its actually 3k from the terminal to the end of the runway, even if you had a direct line of sight (which you dont) which puts any drone around 4-5 k. You would need a bloody good telephoto lens to see that. Ooops its gone...



I dunno - I mean they managed to see it X number of times to report a sighting...
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

itsme

Quote from: needforspeeduk on December 24, 2018, 16:46:57 pm
It seems the main "suspect" was a local Model Flyer (and his missus) who happened to have an old photo of a model Hughes 300 in his Facebook profile.  The boys in blue at their best. Fills you with confidence for when we have to register our models next year.

err where is that regulation? I can find nothing about registering.... https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2555/Update-on-EASA-regulations-for-unmanned-aircraft

lanicopter

November 2019 will require registrations.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

itsme

Quote from: lanicopter on December 24, 2018, 18:25:43 pm
November 2019 will require registrations.
care to elaborate? I believe that means drones, not flown in a club environment.

Michael_Rolls

Just says drones over 250g. No mention of club environments - i read it to mean ALL drones over 250g. Next question - what is a drone? Legally, that is.
Mike
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/drones-to-be-registered-and-users-to-sit-safety-tests-under-new-government-rules
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend

itsme

I think the term 'drone' is starting to mean what we assume it is- a mulitrotor with the ability to hover, RTH, be flown by a muppet etc. Model aircraft are becoming more distant from these regs.
Proposed measures include:

police issuing fixed penalty notices to those disregarding drone rules
using new counter-drone technology to protect public events and critical national infrastructure and stop contraband reaching prisons
introducing minimum age restrictions for drone owners in addition to the new tests they will need to take
proposals for regulating and mandating the use of 'apps' on which pilots would file flight plans ahead of take-off

paulinfrance

Over here, it is anything that flies that can take a photo or image, whether it is r/c or autonomous or sending an image to 'earth', ALL of our RC flying gear has to be registered from the 1st of January 2019 size, weight, commercially bought and what company,  home built, etc,, and whether it has any photo or camera on it,,
and the registration must be visible at 30cm ( a lot of F**g good that is )  :embarassed:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

lanicopter

What would you consider a flying wing or plane with RTH capability though?
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"