Started by Bad Raven, January 08, 2019, 06:55:34 am
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Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmIt's a £9 tax. It's not like it gives you anything more, except to pay for the database of potential suspects for crimes not yet committed. And even that's a push because those who commit the crimes are hardly likely to register first.
Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmSo before you claim it as a victory, think about what it is you're actually getting - because it isn't actually going to stop the activities that caused the laws to be changed in the first place nor is it going to ensure air safety.
Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmThe BMFA, in my view, are now simply tax collectors for the government. Instead of standing up for their members and saying "no, we won't pay your silly stealth tax because we have over 100 years of safe operation" you're now obliged to pay.
Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmIf people refuse to pay then they can no longer fly at a BMFA club.
Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmSo no - not a victory. Sure you can still fly - but that means you can do the same thing you've always done, only now it costs you the best part of a tenner.
Quote from: lanicopter on October 22, 2019, 12:37:41 pmSad.
Quote from: pooh on October 25, 2019, 15:12:52 pmThis is just a knee-jerk reaction by politicians who want to be seen to be doing something even if it is totally ineffectual (whilst they aren't sorting Brexit...)
Quote from: itsme on October 25, 2019, 18:38:38 pmWhilst I in no way disagree with that sentiment, as the law came in to force last year (some of us objected strongly) it is too late to whinge about it now. We have a compromise, which gives us recognition as safe, law abiding model flyers. Be grateful, as I am, to the BMFA, LMA et al who have fought tirelessly.
Quote from: pooh on October 25, 2019, 19:36:56 pmit's not a whinge, it's a statement of fact.We were acknowledged safe and law-abiding before, based on many years of safe and law-abiding behaviourIt's good to see our politicians are very quick to pass a pointless law. I won't mention the B word...
Quote from: lanicopter on October 25, 2019, 22:42:33 pmSo I ask again - why are you okay with this?
Quote from: PDRAnd all this "OMG I'm giving away my data" crap is just twaddle. If you really think think the information is not already available to the state then you're even dafter than we thought.
Quote from: pooh on October 25, 2019, 15:12:52 pmThis is just a knee-jerk reaction by politicians who want to be seen to be doing something even if it is totally ineffectual
Quote from: lanicopter on October 26, 2019, 00:58:09 amSo not being thrilled to pay a fee for something which isn't needed and never has been needed makes me a paranoid schizophrenic? Interesting.
Quote from: undefinedI'm already a fully paid up member of a modelling association - that ought to be good enough, and has been for many years.
Quote from: undefinedI put it to you that if you think they already have access to my data then why do I still need to register and pay?
Quote from: undefinedotherwise you are complicit in the potential future destruction of a hobby that you claim to love.
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 09:26:16 amNo, it's the repeated mantra about "giving them my data" that makes you a paranoid schizophrenic. Whining about a nominal (and desultory) fee just makes you appear childish.
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 09:26:16 amAgain, no it hasn't. It's not enough because (as it stands) there is no external auditing to assure the accuracy of the modelling association's records. While they were solely for our own purposes that was acceptable, but as a single source of truth for a national licensing scheme it falls short. Hence the need to have this only as a data collector for the central register. I have no doubt it will be monitored and audited, and our ability to maintain this exemption will be subject to those audits finding that the data remain accurate.
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 09:26:16 amBecause they already have access to all the individual data items which you paranoid schizophrenics throw your tantrums about - whatr they don't have is the associations that connect those ten (or whatever) data items identify someone who is an assessed and responsible RC model flyer. It's the associations that turn data into information.
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 09:26:16 amOne of the dafter statements (in a particularly rich and hotly contested field) - please explain how registering to show we are responsible adults would destroy our hobby while refusing to do so would not?
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 09:26:16 amSeriously - have you skipped your meds or something? Maybe you should just go climb on a train or something.
Quote from: itsme on October 26, 2019, 09:25:19 amIf you are flying on a slope somewhere or in a public park (why you would do that I have no idea) and some irate warden or nosey parker member of the public accosts you, you can wave your CAA licence at them..
Quote from: PDR on October 22, 2019, 15:43:48 pmIndeed. Those who don't wish to join the BMFA can complete the training and test, and then register directlky with the CAA.The only effective change here is that BMFA members who hold A-license (presumably "or above") are being given a waiver as their qualifications are being accepted as read. WHich is precisely what we asked for.I'm not clear on the requirement to put registration numbers on things - is that still there or are we exempt from that as well? I don't care which it is, I just want to know!Also what is the situation for people who are under training? They would probably be club members and thus BMFA members, but before they pass their A-licence do they need to have a seperate CAA registration/test? Again, I have no strong views one way or the other - I just want to know.There is a "stealth change" in that it probably introduces a requirement for all BMFA clubs to use the A-Licence as a solo-certification. Many/most(?) clubs already do this, but there are those who have refused on some sort of principle. I suppose those people would need to do the CAA test and register as if they weren't BMFA members?These are all just details that we need to tie down to ensure we're in compliance. Overall I thiunk the BMFA have done an excellent job in talking the DfT and CAA out of Dromeageddon and into the reasonable position we'd been seeking.Well done - a superb, professional job. Many, many thanks for all the hard work!PDR
Quote from: lanicopter on October 26, 2019, 09:42:19 amDo you read what you type? The data coming to the CAA will be the exact same data stored by the BMFA/FPVUK/LMA
Quote from: lanicopter on October 26, 2019, 10:45:54 amInterestingly us "loony extremists" have a membership card to wave at a nosy parkers as well. We get that without needing to register with the CAA because it's provided by our modelling association, much like the one you used to get from the BMFA (remember, the blue credit card sized one that you could keep in your wallet?)It shows competency via an endorsement (A-test), and it also shows that I am insured. I also have a certificate of insurance laminated in my flight box to prove my insurance is valid, as well as my address details if a police officer asks.Again - what benefit does registering for a second time with the CAA bring me? The CAA already recognise BMFA/FPVUK etc for what they are.
Quote from: itsme on October 26, 2019, 14:34:48 pmIt would be nice to return to a time BD (before drones) when model fliers engaged in their hobby with little interference from the CAA etc, but the drone morons (not the law abiding ones, that is) have stirred it all up. This legislation would probably have come anyway, with the skies being so crowded, but they have certainly accelerated the process. So this is a problem which has arisen, and as far as I can see, we have been given an answer to it. I shall look forward to my CAA certificate and keep it with my BMFA and my B cert and LMA Proficiency in my Tx case, there to show I am a responsible model flyer.
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 14:58:50 pmI don't think it's a "Before Drones" thing - I think it's a "Before ARTFs" thing. If you think back to before the drone explosion were were already discussing how we were at risk because of people doing silly things with models (flying them through road tunnels and out under bridges & stuff, all filmed and posted on youtube). When we raised concerns we were labelled the "fun police" and jeered at. The main reason these dicks were able to do it was that they didn't have to build the models - that would have needed some skills and an attention span of more than a few seconds. So my personal theory is that it was the ARTF revolution which kicked this whole thing off.PDR
Quote from: PDR on October 26, 2019, 14:48:07 pmThe CAA have agreed (thanks to the stirling efforts of the BMFA/LMA/FPVUK negotiators) to accept the model association data as input for registration rather than demanding we enter it ourselves.
Quote from: Steve J on October 26, 2019, 16:17:07 pmGiven what I am hearing
Quote from: PDR on October 25, 2019, 09:15:14 amNose-face-spite.Grow up. Stop whining and go flying!PDR
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