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February 25, 2020, 18:32:54 pm

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Buying online? A cautionary tale.

Started by chaz2b, October 30, 2019, 20:57:34 pm

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chaz2b

We all know that the demise of our local model shops has been growing since the introduction of online selling, and I'm one of those that do buy online.

However, there have a couple of occasions of non- delivery or mis- delivered items I've ordered online.
One item that didn't arrive,(no tracking provided) was reported by the courier as having been delivered! I was home at the time of the alleged delivery.
I contacted the courier by webchat, a service they provide, and asked as to where exactly was my packet delivered?
They responded with that they will conduct a driver investigation, that finally proved , by the drivers evidence of the property he described, it was in fact mis-delivered.
As the seller has no control over the courier, I cannot blame them nor ask for a full refund, they are not bound to provide one. But I do have a claim against the courier.
 
The lesson here, is, do check when buying online, who the courier is, there may be more than one if bought abroad, get a tracking number, insist on it too!
I have worked with the Royal Mail, and with a parcel delivery firm, so have an understanding of what could give problems with deliveries, especially in rural areas. But with today's systems, gps etc, there should be no excuse for failing to deliver to the correct address. Some couriers even have your phone number on the address label, Yodel does, they mis-delivered a large parcel to my door for a lady who lives a mile away! So I phoned her explaining that her parcel was here, and she sent her husband to collect it, it's just a good job for them I'm honest and a decent chap.
Be careful through which company you use, my chief supplier has been with EBay, but recently I have bought through Amazon and Banggood.
EBay for me, has possibly the best protection, along with PayPal I have had refunds back very quickly without any real grief or hassle, plus you also know exactly who you're dealing with. With Banggood, you have no clue as to whom sold you the item, nor their credence, there is no "contact seller" option when things go awry, not that I could find, and as a lot of the items are cheap, there are no tracking unless supplied at time of purchase.
Be cautious when buying online, 99% will turn up, but get the protection for the last 1%.

Chaz2b
There are many roads to success,.....mine is currently being resurfaced! However, all detours have been removed and financial issues have been met....let's go fly!

PDR

Quote from: chaz2b on October 30, 2019, 20:57:34 pmAs the seller has no control over the courier, I cannot blame them nor ask for a full refund, they are not bound to provide one. But I do have a claim against the courier.

From a legal standpoint this is not correct. In the UK in any business-to-consumer distance sale the business is wholly responsible for the goods until they are delivered in merchandible condition to the consumer. So they are bound to provide a refund/replacement and it is THEY (not you) who have a claim against the carrier.

There are side issues that spin off from this - as carriage is the vendors sole responsibility it is also their risk. That's why it is actually illegal to offer the customer "insured shipping" at a higher price; it is illegal to charge the customer extra money to insure against the shipper's own risk. Some years ago we had a company who called themselves something like "Wholesale Models" who thought that by naming their business as "Wholesale" and having some strange Ts&Cs on their website they could somehow claim they were a business-to-business supplier and be exempt from all the usual consumer law (DSR, SoGA etc) - the specific issue of claiming they weren't responsible for shipping damage being one example. It was twaddle of course, as several of us pointed out at the time, and I understand they got into hot water with Trading Standards when someone complained.

But in the case Chas mentions - it is up to the vendor to select a suitable shipping option, and the vendor is solely responsible to the customer if it doesn't arrive. The vendor may be able to recover the consequent costs from his shipper, but that's something between the two of them and nothing to do with the customer.

This is the law of the land - Ts&Cs can't modify or negate it.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

chaz2b

Thank you for that clarification peter, very much appreciated. Goes to show how, if your not law savvy, vendors will try to steer themselves from blame when your goods go to the great courier black hole.
I have two orders from the same vendor in Singapore, they have yet to arrive after 20 days from order.
They have been good enough to email me very quickly to my enquirery as to my orders whereaouts, and have offered a complete refund if I'm not satisfied. Now, they are on EBay, so I feel assured.

Another point to consider then, is check that what T&Cs they advertise is lawful.
Cheers Pete.

Chaz2b
There are many roads to success,.....mine is currently being resurfaced! However, all detours have been removed and financial issues have been met....let's go fly!

PDR

Remember that vendors in singapore may not consider themselves bound by UK law.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

pooh

My wife ordered some garden accessories from an online supplier. This was split into two orders for some reason. We had tracking numbers for both and one duly arrived within the three days specified. The other didn't so we gave it a couple more days then chased the supplier.

We were told the carrier had delivered it and it was signed for, which we hadn't. After a couple of progressively heated email exchanges I pointed out, as PDR has mentioned, that it was their problem not ours, and to get real proof of delivery.

A photo signature was sent, clearly not either of ours, nor a name to go with it. A further email stating this finally resulted in a photo of the delivery address house. Not ours.

Fortunately I recognised the house as one being built a couple of hundred yards down the road, so I visited the site. And there was the very distinctive parcel, placed at the bck of the site by the builder, who had found it on the roadside, outside the security fence across the site. No labels, no identification, he was hoping someone might claim it, which was kind and sensible.

The delivery driver clearly didn't bother to look for our house - there are no numbers but ours has a very clear house name-plate easily visible on a summer's day - then took a photo of the wrong address and finally ripped off the delivery information to hide the evidence.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

paulinfrance

I see two problems here, no N° on your house, so who wants to run up and down the road looking for someone who can't be bothered to put one on their door, :-X  and secondly you state "name-plate easily visible on a summer's day" it is mostly cloudy in the UK :co  so if he was early or late in the day he wouldn't have seen it,,,  >:(
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

pooh

November 01, 2019, 10:56:00 am #6 Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 10:58:54 am by pooh
There are NO numbers allocated to houses in our small village. When we bought the house (new) it was grandly titled "Plot 1" despite being almost in the middle of the village. And there is only one street. All the  50 or so houses have names, almost all clearly visible from any vehicle on the road. We often have deliveries, all but this one with no problems.

The delivery was made in the middle of the day according to the carrier records, and the photograph taken by the driver clearly shows bright sunshine.

Sarcasm forgiven.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

itsme

my daughter had a similar thing- her house is known as 'Flour Mill House' as thats what it used to be, it has no number. She was waiting for a delivery and complained, and they sent her a picture of a totally different house they had delivered to. Think that was DPD.
Our house has a back garden gate on a different street, and we often get people looking for that street coming up our back path. Britain can be confusing!

paulinfrance

Quote from: pooh on November 01, 2019, 10:56:00 amThere are NO numbers allocated to houses in our small village. When we bought the house (new) it was grandly titled "Plot 1" despite being almost in the middle of the village. And there is only one street. All the  50 or so houses have names, almost all clearly visible from any vehicle on the road. We often have deliveries, all but this one with no problems.

The delivery was made in the middle of the day according to the carrier records, and the photograph taken by the driver clearly shows bright sunshine.

Sarcasm forgiven.



I live in a cul de Sac with the same problem as yours, there were only 3 houses now 11 and 2 plots still empty, the entrance has N° 24 on it, so not being an idiot, :''  I got us all around a table and we all decided to give our houses another way of being identified, so we settled on letters at the end, mine being 24F,,,

simple enough for you ?. :study:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

PDR

You can't really do trhat safely in the UK. If your address doesn't have a house number and you make up an arbitrary one there is a real chance the address finders used by the couriers will throw up an error and refuse to give a route becuase they system "knows" that postcode AZ1-2XY doesn't have a house number 221b. Almost all the ligistics people in the UK base things on the postcode database (largely because it's very good, frequently updated and inthe rare cases where it's inappropriate the residents know to give more detailed instructions). In that respect it's different to other countries.

You also risk basic letter post going astraym because the post office sorting system doesn't recognise the made-up house number on a letter.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

itsme

As for systems being clever enough to recognise addresses any where in the world, I bought a Sunpass toll pass in Florida. You have to go online and add your details and some money. I did this, got through four pages of rubbish, make up passwords etc car number, visa card number etc then at the end it asks for your address. Filled it all in then it says 'country of origin'. The choices were- Canada, the US, or Mexico....nothing else! then it asks for a zip code. I put in 12345 and it accepted it...