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ST 2000 Needle valve

Started by meharibear, July 21, 2020, 20:34:32 pm

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meharibear

I recently acquired a Jiant Jabberwocky powered by an Super Tigre ST2000 engine.  Today I ran the engine for the first time and was very impressed.  Nice and easy starting by hand.  HOWEVER .... a previous owner had modified the needle valve by extending it massively so it could be used with the very large radial style cowl on.  It is the "pointy threaded wire" style as used on ETAs in days gone by. The had then soldered on a "penny" coin to provide a larger operating knob.  As a result, after about 10 minutes running the needle valve sheared off where it enters the carb.  This was entirely the result of the vibration of that large mass on the end of a long thing steel rod!  Nice clear fatigue fracture visible.  Now the engine runs nicely BUT I cannot adjust it!  Before I try the likes of Just Engines for a new spare, has anyone got one kicking around their work shop, or even a spare carb they want to dispose of?
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

jrman

Try Dave Wilshere at Motors And Rotors. He may still have spares.

PDR

Remove the clamping collar and it should leave sufficient needle exposed to be able to grip it with pliers and unscrew it. From there you can do one of four things:

1. Replace it with a new one (can be found on ebay for a few quid)

2. use a junior hacksaw or dremmel cutting disk to cut a slot in the end and refit it. It can then be adjusted with a 2mm flat-bladed jewelers screwdriver (the hole in the clamping collar holder the screwdriver in place) and then locked with the clamping collar. I think most of my ST carbs ended up like this.

3. Grind the needle back beyond the point where it reaches the metering orifice and then refit it, clamped firmly in place with the clamping collar. Then use an external remote needle valve assembly to adjust the mixture.

4. Remove and discard the ST2000 and replace it with a proper 12s electric setup as <deity of choice> intended.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

paulinfrance

Quote from: PDR on July 21, 2020, 22:50:19 pm4. Remove and discard the ST2000 and replace it with a proper 12s electric setup as <deity of choice> intended.

PDR

 Oh dear, yesterday the "b" word now this,,

Try doubling up your medicine, if that has no or little effect maybe a "white jacket" ?.
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

meharibear

Thanks for all your interesting and amusing (Pete) comments!  I shall get on with sorting out the ST and have no intention to further deplete the world's lithium supplies instead. ^-^
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

PDR

Quote from: meharibear on July 22, 2020, 09:49:07 am...and have no intention to further deplete the world's lithium supplies instead. ^-^

Many are called, but few are chosen. But always remember there is more joy in the bistro over one sinner that repenteth than can needle a camel under His Noodley Appendage. It is never too late to turn from the dark side, young Hari - for the night is dark and full of terrors.

IC is dead, but sadly what is dead may never die...

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

itsme

Quote from: meharibear on July 22, 2020, 09:49:07 amThanks for all your interesting and amusing (Pete) comments!  I shall get on with sorting out the ST and have no intention to further deplete the world's lithium supplies instead. ^-^

I totally agree that veggie is not the way to go with big models. However, with a third of lithium going in to batteries, there is still around 40 million tons of the stuff available. Super Tigre 3000s were good engines, but outclassed by Moki 180s, and both now pointless with the excellent petrol engines available.

FlyinBrian

July 22, 2020, 20:12:59 pm #7 Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 20:14:44 pm by FlyinBrian
Quote from: itsme on July 22, 2020, 14:36:26 pmI totally agree that veggie is not the way to go with big models. However, with a third of lithium going in to batteries, there is still around 40 million tons of the stuff available. Super Tigre 3000s were good engines, but outclassed by Moki 180s, and both now pointless with the excellent petrol engines available.

I reserve judgement on glow v petrol. I prefer the sound of a decent four stroke glow engine to all petrol engines running without a canister or other decent exhaust.

OTOH I have recently obtained a Boeing Stearman Bipe of around 6 foot span fitted with an OS 40cc petrol FS, this uses what looks like a large glow motor exhaust and in a video sounds great - will be giving it a test in the garden soon. Along with the ASP 120 I have refurbed, of course I need to find the so..ing wood-ruff key for the prop driver which crept off when I was not looking.

Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

meharibear

Quote from: itsme on July 22, 2020, 14:36:26 pmI totally agree that veggie is not the way to go with big models. However, with a third of lithium going in to batteries, there is still around 40 million tons of the stuff available. Super Tigre 3000s were good engines, but outclassed by Moki 180s, and both now pointless with the excellent petrol engines available.
I agree that petrol is probably the way forward (I have some) but I bought this model with the almost new ST2000 (25T) in it and thought it would be a shame not to use it.  So far, except for the needle issue it is looking good.  And there are some on eBay as predicted so that should soon be solved.
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

paulinfrance

Methanol at 35€ le 5 litres over here is over taxed and out priced. :o

Big 4 Strokes are too expensive. :-\

Petrol engines are cheap and cheerful, cost nothing to run but make
an awful noise without a canister, that's the way I have gone. :study:

Electriackry is RUBBISH, a wheeee, sort of annoying noise, not eco friendly to make the battery's that are overpriced and  $%& don't last,  minerals that use slave labour to mine, not recyclable, :-X  and worse thing is short flights, for some a sure way to break their toys with a death defying landing every 5 minutes,,  :nananana:
While my crash landings are every 15 minutes  33% less chance of breaking my toys. :uk:

awaiting P** reply  :co
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

itsme

Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 22, 2020, 20:12:59 pmI reserve judgement on glow v petrol. I prefer the sound of a decent four stroke glow engine to all petrol engines running without a canister or other decent exhaust.

OTOH I have recently obtained a Boeing Stearman Bipe of around 6 foot span fitted with an OS 40cc petrol FS, this uses what looks like a large glow motor exhaust and in a video sounds great - will be giving it a test in the garden soon. Along with the ASP 120 I have refurbed, of course I need to find the so..ing wood-ruff key for the prop driver which crept off when I was not looking.


I have an OS40cc FS petrol. Loads of power, bit noisier than I expected, starting was my problem, fitted inverted it kept chucking the prop loose. Now I open throttle wide with no ignition on, use my geared starter to run it a couple of seconds, then low idle and ign on and it starts easy. Use a nice heavy glas filled prop, when new they need that weight to keep a good idle.

FlyinBrian

July 23, 2020, 12:04:40 pm #11 Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 12:30:29 pm by FlyinBrian
Quote from: itsme on July 23, 2020, 08:14:30 amI have an OS40cc FS petrol. Loads of power, bit noisier than I expected, starting was my problem, fitted inverted it kept chucking the prop loose. Now I open throttle wide with no ignition on, use my geared starter to run it a couple of seconds, then low idle and ign on and it starts easy. Use a nice heavy glas filled prop, when new they need that weight to keep a good idle.

Itsme, What starter are you using please. Re prop, it had an 18 x 8 wood prop  which seems small???
I will be fitting a GF filled prop but do I stick with 18 x 8 or can it handle say 20 x 10 like my MVVS 40cc (on a tuned pipe)

Ta
Brian
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

paulinfrance

July 23, 2020, 12:27:38 pm #12 Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 12:28:57 pm by paulinfrance Reason: forgot the picture
starter.pngYou can pick these up for around 50€ and work well on 3S, :af

As for running, the engine throttle open to clear it, until you forget the ignition switch and it takes your fingers off,, :-X
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

PDR

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 23, 2020, 06:46:08 amawaiting P** reply  :co

No point - you clearly know even less about electrics than you do about everything else. Not really interested in the opinion of someone who can't remember how to spell PDR.

I can see why you moved to France. A mate of mine had half a mind to move to a job in the Dodogne, but turned out that in having half a mind he was hopelessly overqualified.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

FlyinBrian

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 23, 2020, 12:27:38 pmstarter.pngYou can pick these up for around 50€ and work well on 3S, :af

As for running, the engine throttle open to clear it, until you forget the ignition switch and it takes your fingers off,, :-X

OK I have seen them on Ali Express, do they work?

Re losing fingers -

I start large glow motors by:

Fully open throttle, finger over silencer outlet and turn the engine over a few times to get fuel to the engine using silencer pressure.

Close throttle and flick the prop to feel the fuel loosening up the engine till it "feels right"

Put on the glow clip, apply starter and away they go.

Turning on the ignition would be the equivalent of putting on the glow clip so that sounds ok to me.

Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

FlyinBrian

Quote from: PDR on July 23, 2020, 12:57:08 pmNo point - you clearly know even less about electrics than you do about everything else. Not really interested in the opinion of someone who can't remember how to spell PDR.

I can see why you moved to France. A mate of mine had half a mind to move to a job in the Dodogne, but turned out that in having half a mind he was hopelessly overqualified.

PDR

Re spelling - Where is the Dodogne?
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

paulinfrance

July 23, 2020, 15:25:20 pm #16 Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 05:30:25 am by paulinfrance
I back flip my four strokes after doing the same till methanol comes out of the carb and back flip with a wooden spoon, "but" luckily Tuesday I held the prop on my old OS 80, I mixed up the ignition ( glow ) switch on the radio, as it hasn't flow for 2 years and it was 'live',, still got all of my fingers.

Yes I paid 46€ with the big cone, 3 in the club and 2 on 3s for 20/30cc petrol and one for a 55cc the third on the old 12v 7amp lead battery.

With my shoulders no way could I swing a prop on a petrol.

Ps, I fitted choke levers on all of mine.

PPs that's, Do*dogne,, it's where Brits go and buy a heap of rubble for £300.000 and drink themselves to death on red wine.
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

itsme

Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 23, 2020, 12:04:40 pmItsme, What starter are you using please. Re prop, it had an 18 x 8 wood prop  which seems small???
I will be fitting a GF filled prop but do I stick with 18 x 8 or can it handle say 20 x 10 like my MVVS 40cc (on a tuned pipe)

Ta
Brian
When its run in, sure. I use a Just Engines 24 volt geared starter, on two gel cell 12 volt batteries wired together. I use a charger designed for mobility scooters. The starter is not perfect, it can weld the contacts together and you need to dismantle the switch to fix it. Happened to me once, others a couple of times. It will start almost anything. I am using an 18x8 Master Airscrew black glass filled plastic.

JimG

The starter looks like one that is available from Morris Mini Motors. A friend has one and it works well although he has found that the standard starter insert is a bit large for smaller spinners.
I have the larger version to start my 90cc petrol radial which needs a lot of torque to turn over.

Jim
Jim Gill
Dundee Model Aircraft Club

NickK

Ps, I fitted choke leavers on all of mine.

What did you do for a choke then after that :ev  $%&
Who says ventriloquism is Gollocks

paulinfrance

Quote from: NickK on July 23, 2020, 21:51:43 pmPs, I fitted choke leavers on all of mine.

What did you do for a choke then after that :ev  $%&

 oh dear,,,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

FlyinBrian

Quote from: paulinfrance on July 23, 2020, 15:25:20 pmI back flip my four strokes after doing the same till methanol comes out of the carb and back flip with a wooden spoon, "but" luckily Tuesday I held the prop on my old OS 80, I mixed up the ignition ( glow ) switch on the radio, as it hasn't flow for 2 years and it was 'live',, still got all of my fingers.

Yes I paid 46€ with the big cone, 3 in the club and 2 on 3s for 20/30cc petrol and one for a 55cc the third on the old 12v 7amp lead battery.

With my shoulders no way could I swing a prop on a petrol.

Ps, I fitted choke levers on all of mine.

PPs that's, Do*dogne,, it's where Brits go and buy a heap of rubble for £300.000 and drink themselves to death on red wine.

I know where the DorDogne is just wondered if there was a similar sounding place that I did not know about - where is the evil grin smiley?
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

paulinfrance

Quote from: FlyinBrian on July 24, 2020, 06:17:00 amI know where the DorDogne is just wondered if there was a similar sounding place that I did not know about - where is the evil grin smiley?

I see the spelling Police are out in force in the last couple of days,, it must be the Summer heat,, :-\
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

itsme

More than that- PDR is NOT wearing a mask!

Bernd_57

August 23, 2020, 13:53:38 pm #24 Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 14:00:14 pm by Bernd_57
Hello meharibear
Sell the needle in germany
https://sage-shop.com/epages/Edi_sModellbauparadies.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Edi_sModellbauparadies/Products/22260353-SIM
from the Super Tiger G51 Control Line Engine  fit the Fuelneedel

or convert to gasoline with OS G5 and Walbro
Greetings Bernd

meharibear

Thanks, I got a replacement needle from eBay.  I had considered the gasoline/petrol conversion but I am told by others that the big end beating isn't up to it.  Anyone know if that is true?
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

paulinfrance

are you saying that the ST needle will fit the walbro carbs ?
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

meharibear

Quote from: meharibear on August 23, 2020, 14:27:37 pmThanks, I got a replacement needle from eBay.  I had considered the gasoline/petrol conversion but I am told by others that the big end beating isn't up to it.  Anyone know if that is true?

No, only that I now have a replacement needle for my original ST Carb - BUT I was considering a petrol conversion until a number of people told me that the ST big end wasn't up to it.
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

FlyinBrian

I'd thought about a petrol conversion myself but decided my big end was'nt up to it. :o
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

Engine Doctor

They are available on ebay  BUT from America cost £4.54 but postage is £14.27 then you will probably get hit by trump customs . You can I think update to the later carb insert and should find more of them around .
Take off's are optional ,landings are not !

Mike_T

I'm sure there used to be a supplier in the US who did roller-bearing conrods for STs. 

I petrolised my Moki 210 (Walbro carb, couple of head shims plus ign. system) and ran it on a 5% oil mix with no problems to date.  I subsequently removed the ign. system and it now runs on a G5 plug.  Idle isn't as good, but it probably just needs more tweaking, which I can't be ar$ed to do...