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Author Topic: GMS 2000 Engines?  (Read 5920 times)

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Offline nigelb

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GMS 2000 Engines?
« on: July 06, 2006, 11:07:18 AM »
Hi

I've just got a Wot4 with a new GMS engine fitted, appears to be a 47 (goes like stink anyway).

Problem is getting it to run when warm.

Its fine when starting, give you maybe 5 mins on the first flight, then subsequent runs get shorter and shorter.

Is there a suggested running in regime for these engines?

The only manual I can find online is very thin, doesn't even point out things like the slow running needle, and gives no clues.

Maybe someone has these/uses them, and knows how I should treat this one?

Cheers

Nige

Offline Maximum maxage

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2006, 11:35:26 AM »
HI

I've got the "manual!!"  which came with my GMS .61
If it hepls I can scan and email it over to you?

Best regards

Neil :) :)
Set a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his l

Offline nigelb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2006, 11:53:12 AM »
Hi

Is this the "manual" you mean?
http://www.mecoa.com/gms/manual.htm

I guess OS spoil us with exploded views, actually showing which bit is what.

How did you find your engine was whilst running in?

What fuel are you using?

Cheers

Nige

Offline Maximum maxage

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2006, 13:22:11 PM »
HI

Yes the manual is very similar, however mine shows exploded views and part numbers for the .61 and .76 engines
First run with motor was yesterday, had about 5 flights in the end, very satisfied,starts very easily, hot or cold.
Fuel is Bekra 10, plug is Taylor long reach


BR


Neil :) :)
Set a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his l

Offline nigelb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2006, 13:50:32 PM »
Hi

I'm using straight castor.

Starting was dead easy, however, when it gets hot, it stops ...

Suspicion is the idle needle is set too rich, so the main jet is set lean.

I'll have a play to get the idle needle set about right (when idling, it certainly did appear a bit rich) and when that's done, I'll fine tune the main needle.

I hate ic, at least with leccie you can measure how many V/A are going in etc!

Nige

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2006, 13:53:38 PM »
Hi

Yup sounds too lean
mine was to rich on bottom end, had to lean it off about 1/2 turn, now picks up fairly clean
No probs with it stopping mid flight


BR

Neil :D :D
Set a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his l

Offline Steve Lewin

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2006, 14:25:20 PM »
I had a GMS .47 a while ago and it did something very similar. After I'd tried everything I and the usual crowd of "engine experts" at the club could think of I sold it, cheap, at a swap meet (warning the purchaser). I met him later and he told me he'd changed the carb, tried several different plugs and fuels. Eventually he found it would only run reliably on at least 15% nitro....so he threw it away :(.

Not much help really, sorry ;).

Offline nigelb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 15:02:39 PM »
Ok, got a plan anyway, lean the idle a little and see what happens

(but thanks for the hopeful thoughts Steve ...)

Thing is, the engine feels really powerful, takes the Wot4 vertically on a hair over half throttle, so I think its worth the aggro to get it sorted.

Cheers

Nige

Offline tomkfly

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 15:07:23 PM »
Hi



I'll have a play to get the idle needle set about right (when idling, it certainly did appear a bit rich) and when that's done, I'll fine tune the main needle.


Nige

 no! no! no! always tune the top end first or you will never get it right.


 Tom
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Offline nigelb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 15:33:01 PM »
Tom, how?

(boy do I hate it when people tell me I'm doing something wrong, then don't explain how to do it right.)

Perhaps you can provide me with step by step instructions?

Cheers

Nige
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 15:38:35 PM by nigelb »

Offline p51p47

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 15:36:30 PM »
Get it running, advance to full power, stick the nose in the air.................if it dies, it's lean. Lower the nose and richen main needle a few clicks, and repeat the process.....................once you can get a solid, even full rpm run, with the nose of the model vertical, you;r about right................once that's done, you can then start playing with the slow running needle to get a smooth pick up.

Real planes are green...anything without guns is a target. Fighteraces Warbird & Accessories

Offline p51p47

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2006, 15:38:52 PM »
I'd also stick at least 5% nitro through it as well as synthetic not castor oil.....................the nitro will help keep the flame lit, and the synthetic oil is much cleaner that castor...............
Real planes are green...anything without guns is a target. Fighteraces Warbird & Accessories

Offline p51p47

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2006, 15:40:56 PM »
You also don't mention what plug you are running......................Enya No3 or OS 8 is all a motor like this should need.

Phil
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Offline tomkfly

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2006, 16:14:49 PM »
Tom, how?

(boy do I hate it when people tell me I'm doing something wrong, then don't explain how to do it right.)

Perhaps you can provide me with step by step instructions?

Cheers

Nige
Sorry I was in a bit of a rush. I tried to find some old posts that explained it, but ran out of time. I did intend to post again if nobody had explained by the time I got back to my keyboard. Here is a pretty good explanation posted a while back by Bridlingtonflyer. This I believe was based on a mag. article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SETTING A TWO NEEDLE CARBURETTOR

PART ONE - MAIN NEEDLE ADJUSTMENT

STEP 1 - Charge the tank to about 1/3 full only.
STEP 2 - Open the throttle wide and close the needle completely.
STEP 3 - Open the main needle three whole turns from closed.
STEP 4 - Place a finger over the air intake and rotate the propeller 6 times.
STEP 5 - Remove finger and close throttle to one third open.
STEP 6 - Connect glow starter.
STEP 7 - Start engine. (mine actually started really easy up to this point no electric starter)
STEP 8 - Gently (important) open throttle to full.
STEP 9 - Remove glow starter.
STEP 10 - Hold the model nose up at approx 60 degrees.
STEP 11 - Close main needle until engine RPM peaks.
STEP 12 - Open main needle one or two clicks from absolute peak RPM.
STEP 13 - DO NOT TOUCH THE MAIN NEEDLE SETTING FROM THIS JUNCTURE

PART TWO - IDLE NEEDLE ADJUSTMENT

STEP 14 - Close throttle to one quarter (i.e. fast idle).
STEP 15 - OPEN secondary needle one quarter turn.
STEP 16 - WAIT 5 seconds and observe results.
STEP 17 - If idle RPM SLOWS, close secondary needle back to where it was.
STEP 18 - Close secondary needle one further quarter turn.
STEP 19 - WAIT 5 seconds and observe results.
STEP 20 - If engine RPM speeds up then you are moving in the right direction - opening and closing the secondary needle setting until idle speed peaks is your goal.
STEP 21 - Open throttle wide and check response.
STEP 22 - If engine hesitates open secondary needle a LITTLE.
STEP 23 - I engine splutters and and throws fuel droplets from the air intake, close secondary needle a LITTLE.
STEP 24 - Open throttle wide and recheck the MAIN needle setting with the nose of the model raised.

If thre is anything you don't understand please ask.
One other thing: Make sure the fuel is not too stale. (over a year old)

Good Luck


   Tom

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Offline tomkfly

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 16:20:07 PM »
This is one of the most frequently asked Questions. Perhaps we could agree a definitive method and pin it the start of the IC Engine child board.

   Tom
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Offline nigelb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2006, 23:37:37 PM »
Tom

Have you ever started a GMS engine?

Nige

Offline tomkfly

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2006, 08:08:35 AM »
Tom

Have you ever started a GMS engine?

Nige


No,I don't think I have, but I have started a lot of engines from quite a few different manufacturers and basically they are all the same.  The requirement for an engine to run is compression, a sufficient supply of a suitable fuel getting to the cyl., and a good glow. I would recommend you use either an OS no 8 or Enya no3 plug and check it on your glow start to make sure you are getting a bright orange glow.
Make sure you have no leaks or blockages in your plumbing and the needle jet is clear of blockages. Open the needle at least 3 turns and the throttle fully. Put your finger over the carb' opening and turn the engine over until you feel some fuel on your finger. Take your finger off the carb' and turn the engine over  another 6 to ten times and then close the throttle to 1/2. Attach the glow start and give the prop a good flick with a chicken stick or apply an electric starter. The engine should then start.

Here is a link to a GMS2000 site:
http://www.mecoa.com/gms/index.htm
Have a look at the FAQs

Hope this helps.

   Tom
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Offline ants

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2006, 20:19:42 PM »
Nigelb Prehaps the motor is cooked? Your using castor oil in the fuel. Engine gets to hot oil breaks down, coats inside of engine with burnt oil. This acts as an insulator and the motor get to hot overheats and won't run or reduced power. If needle valve adjustments dont work I d say this is your problem. Cheap fuel false economy. GMS's like nitro to. Super Tigres no nitro.

I did this once to a heli engine, when I was learning to hover on training undercarige. Did nt want to spend good money on synthetic oil fuels, when only bouncing around on the deck. Mistake, real Homer Simpson moment. Cooked engine as above. Strip down and clean and it was fine with decent fuel. Try taking the head of and see what the top of the piston and liner look like. Could be your problem as weather very hot lately.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 20:24:02 PM by ants »
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Offline paulplane

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2007, 18:29:46 PM »
I've had 3 GMS Motors. A .25 a .65 and a .37.
Never could get the .25 and the .65 to start-and they were BNIB! The.37 went, but kept dead-sticking all the time. Tried everything, but threw the whole lot in the bin! Never will touch them again.
p.s. I own 500+ engines of most makes, and even MDS are better than this!
All the people who used them in the club all had problems-eventually us "engine experts" persuaded them to but a decent engine, like OS, irvine, etc..
I would do the same-before it costs a model :''
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Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2007, 18:52:04 PM »
I've had 3 GMS Motors. A .25 a .65 and a .37.
Never could get the .25 and the .65 to start-and they were BNIB! The.37 went, but kept dead-sticking all the time. Tried everything, but threw the whole lot in the bin! Never will touch them again.
p.s. I own 500+ engines of most makes, and even MDS are better than this!
All the people who used them in the club all had problems-eventually us "engine experts" persuaded them to but a decent engine, like OS, irvine, etc..
I would do the same-before it costs a model :''
I think you are talking about the wrong engines,GMS have never produced  65 or a  37, GMS are good engines not like them stupid MDS crap. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Electrickery is the work of the devil,  proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline paulplane

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2007, 19:04:35 PM »
Yeah, you're right, It must have been the .47 and the .61. Obviously I've tried to forget the money I'd wasted...up in smoke :cig
Just stick to the 'proper hardware from now on...
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Offline bugsb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2007, 19:13:47 PM »
i had the gms 61 in a cap kept the cowl off as the engine was being run in never died on me but was lacking power
the main dislike is the exhaust great big dustbin that never kept in place and no other exhaust would fit
i later fitted the sc 53 bags more power
Ron     
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Offline bugsb

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2007, 19:39:56 PM »
one thing i do remember was you got extra head gaskets so depending on what fuel used you could adjust the compression
Ron
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Offline paulplane

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2007, 20:47:18 PM »
You mean the SC 53 had bags more power than the GMS 61?
Definately something wrong there-as the 61 is a much bigger unit.
One bad thing though, as you can't use aftermarket silencers, so if you want a pitts silencer, you would be stuck :banghead:  :sm99:
The SC fit the normal OS sizes, so Just Engines can make you a silencer to fit...I've just ordered a inverted pitts silencer for my OS 60FP for a Bulldog. Try that with a GMS
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Offline Brian Cooper

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2007, 06:25:58 AM »
I have got a GMS 120 in an Xtra-Wot.   I have had this model for years. :af 
It isn't the most blindingly powerful engine in its class, but it has enough power to (just) drag the 10 pound model vertical, and it is boringly reliable.  :af

B.C.

Offline ACE-OF-SPADS

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2007, 07:21:20 AM »
I've got the GMS 2000 61. It hasnt flown yet but has had at least 1/2 a gallon of Southern Modelcraft 10% nitro Synthetic mix through it. I have to say its probably one of the easiest engines I've had to break in.

TomKfly's Tuning advice is sound provided the engine is run in first. Attempting to tune and engine like that, that hasnt been run in, would kill the engine for sure.

By 'run in' I mean at least 45 minutes of ground run time.

This is my procedure based loosley on the JE instructions.

Start by running 2 tanks through at a very rich mixture at half throttle. It needs to be so rich that the exhaust is realy wet with unburnt oil. Let the engine cool completely between runs. The next tank (3rd) should be run at about 3/4 throttle, with the same mixture. The fourth tank open it up to full chat and repeat with the rich mix.

Now you can start to lean it in over subsequent runs. It normally takes me anything up to 10 tanks to get up to a peak RPM mixture. Once you have to top end set then adjust the idle screw as per the instructions above.

Also check the seal around the carb joint. On all my 2 strokes I use silicon sealant as well as the supplied O-ring to seal the joint. I've had experience of engines not behaving due to air leakage around the carb.

My GMS 2000 61 is turning a graupner 11 x 8 pusher. Havent clocked it yet (only just got a replacement cell for my tacho) but its screaming its nuts off and the throttle pick up is brilliant, very linear response. The idle is well low for 2 stroke as well.
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Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2007, 08:05:20 AM »
It is a little known fact that an ABC engine can seize as easy by running too rich as too lean,The best way is to start the engine then go to full throttle and lean the mixture till it just starts to two-stroke being more two than four-stroke. ABC engines need to be brought up to working temperature quickly and maintained in order to achieve the correct piston/cylinder clearances,If you run too rich the cylinder head contracts to the point that the typical ABC pinch at TDC eliminates all lubrication,this then leads to localised overheating and seizure is very possible :'(
Electrickery is the work of the devil,  proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline Cactus

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 09:46:44 AM »
is it true that the GMS engines are a straight replacement for the Jen range? i could do with a new crankshaft, but want one that doesn't snap.
I know you believe you understand what you think i said, but i am not sure you realise that what you think you heard is not what i meant.

Offline Fisty

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2007, 12:03:45 PM »
Buy an OS!

Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2007, 18:05:47 PM »
buy a super tigre :af :af :af
Electrickery is the work of the devil,  proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline Fisty

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2007, 18:44:56 PM »
No match for an OS!!

Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2007, 19:52:41 PM »
No match for an OS!!
how do you know?
Electrickery is the work of the devil,  proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline Fisty

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2007, 22:15:25 PM »
I have flown many models over the years with all different types of motors including supertigres. . . . they are powerful but i think the 'k' series is too bulky ( there silencers especially ) and thirsty, also the OS carbs are far more user friendly.

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 22:31:47 PM »
OS engines are a smooth running quality made engine but they are overrated eg the la range is very under powered, my st34 is more than a match for the la40, the rest of them are over priced probably due to their popularity. :)     P.S.  for gawds sake please dont mention mds :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 22:36:48 PM »
you can't compair a ST and an LA, two very different engines with different uses. i bet your st34 couldn't do much with a 12.35x2.75, however load a LA46 up with one, and it'll do it.

LA's arn't about revs, but their still rubbish
I know you believe you understand what you think i said, but i am not sure you realise that what you think you heard is not what i meant.

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2007, 22:49:12 PM »
Certainly not overated! Quality costs! and there reputation is well earned. The LA's were designed to replace the PLAIN BEARING  FP's thr LA's also being PLAIN BEARING and are a budget model . . . . not a very good one though, have heard rumours a new series is on the way to replace them. The ST34 is a ballraced motor and was designed to perform, ST's equivalent of the OS32F/SX.

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2007, 00:35:31 AM »
you can't compair a ST and an LA, two very different engines with different uses. i bet your st34 couldn't do much with a 12.35x2.75, however load a LA46 up with one, and it'll do it.

LA's arn't about revs, but their still rubbish
never tried but food for thought, la46 is two sizes bigger though. what revs will it do on that prop? :)
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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2007, 10:01:02 AM »
very very low, somewhere around 9k by the sounds of it, but it does it, it seems the engine loves to be loaded up rather than trying to make it sing on a 11x4
I know you believe you understand what you think i said, but i am not sure you realise that what you think you heard is not what i meant.

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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2007, 10:24:15 AM »
very very low, somewhere around 9k by the sounds of it, but it does it, it seems the engine loves to be loaded up rather than trying to make it sing on a 11x4
when i get time i will run a few tests and may get back to you with results. i have numerous props but no 12.35x2.75. if i get time i will send you a PM. :) :) :)
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Re: GMS 2000 Engines?
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2007, 06:16:26 AM »
My GMS 61 clocked yesterday @10980 on a Graupner 11 x 8 pusher, with 2800 @ idle. Initially it bust 11K but settled down a bit.
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