2.4Ghz system?

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[markg]

6. Full 4 servo glider wing capability.

I don't see why this can't be done on the FF7

That was the one I noticed, regardless of your previous posts I would still urge you to compare the entry level Cockpit SX with the equivalent Futaba offering.

Incidentally I have never owned any Multiplex equipment and for the 20 odd years prior to getting my DX7 have always used Futaba.  The 6EX I have feels little better in the hands than those ones that come with Hong Kong RTFs and it's features and programming are almost identical to the FF6 I bought many years prior to it (save for the addition of expo and a whopping 3 extra model memories...whoop-de-do!).  I have also briefly fondled a Cockpit SX and it was rather more confidence inspiring.  I've never needed a high end set so can't offer any comparison there but from what I can see Futaba have somewhat dropped the ball when it comes to the needs of an average flyer like me.

[JohnB]

I was responding to someone elses comparison!

I've always had Futaba, currently 2 x 9z's, at Christmas I bought a DX7 to find out what all the fuss was about and hence moving to the JR high end 2.4GHz when avaliable. I was curious about Multiplex but nothing I've heard has changed my mind so far.

Regards - J

[Steve J]

Muliplex IPD, Shulze Alpha, Hyperion DSP and Berg DSP all use the same DSP techniques and algoirthms, originally developed by Paul Berg and licensed to the others.

That is interesting and has saved me from possibly buying an IPD receiver out of curiosity. In my experience, the JR RS77S PCM receiver is better (and cheaper) than the Schulze Alpha's that I have. If I get hit by a burst of interference (or forget to put my antenna up  ), I know what I would rather have in the model. And it isn't the Schulze.

Steve

[alexeames]

That is interesting and has saved me from possibly buying an IPD receiver out of curiosity. In my experience, the JR RS77S PCM receiver is better (and cheaper) than the Schulze Alpha's that I have. If I get hit by a burst of interference (or forget to put my antenna up  ), I know what I would rather have in the model. And it isn't the Schulze.

Steve

And yet Steve, I've heard of people having difficulty getting the alphas working (flybyday or someone else binned one a whort while ago I think?) but never, ever heard anyone say anything bad about a multiplex IPD. I have two of them and they are simply superb. 

[SteveBB]

Mark, I haven't done any comparisons at all, merely asked what makes Multiplex head and shoulders above the rest and if it's so good why isn't it 'the' mainstream transmitter.

Regards - J

There are loads of reasons why-marketing, chatting to fellow flyers and getting their views-and we all know they'll be different! Budget plays a part too. I think also there could be a 'type' of modeller that chooses a particular brand of beans,cars,cd players and indeed radio gear. Just assess the merits or otherwise and pays the money. I chose the SX (More or less committed to getting a DX7-being on two waiting lists) only after getting the pdf of both radios and finding, togther with comments on this forum, that it didn't support easily four servo wings. No contest really, especially after what I've mentioned previously.

[Steve J]

And yet Steve, I've heard of people having difficulty getting the alphas working (flybyday or someone else binned one a whort while ago I think?) but never, ever heard anyone say anything bad about a multiplex IPD. I have two of them and they are simply superb. 

I don't have a problem with the Alpha's. It's just that I have found the little JR synth PCM receiver to be better. And cheaper. I use my Alpha's in gliders and RS77S's in anything with a fan.

Out of curiosity, I've just had a look at a couple of online shops assuming that I was a flyer with a few models and £300 to spend on a new transmitter and a few receivers. £300 translates to -

1) a Cockpit SX and three RX-7's
2) an JR 2720 and three RS77S's
3) a DX7, two receivers and four micro servos
4) a Futaba 6EX-FASST, three receivers and four standard servos

Which my hypothetical flyer would go for doubtless depends on what they fly and where (personally I would go for a JR PCM9XII and two RS77S  ), I suspect that a lot of the guys down my club will end up with 4.

Steve

[satinet]

i find the RS70 to be an excellent RX for the money. 

[BrianB]

Hi again John

Perhaps if Multiplex had the manufacturing base and marketing budget of Futaba, they'd sell considerably more equipment than they already do. For a relatively small r/c equipment manufacturer (about 50 people are employed by Multiplex in Germany) they enjoy excellent sales in most of Europe, particularly in Germany itself, and have done so for 40+ years. They've also been at the forefront of r/c technology for quite some time, being the first company to develop things like proportional control (1963), digital servos (1968), interchangeable Tx frequency modules (1978), PCM modulation (early 80's), 10kc channel spacing (1979) first programmable transmitter (1976) etc. Not a bad showing for a company with somewhat limited resources, compared to the big boys.

The German FTZ telecommunications regulatons mean that new Futaba and JR equipment as you know it cannot be sold in Germany. It simply does not comply with the regs as they currently stand. To get round these regs, both Futaba and JR have equipment built to FTZ standards specifically for sale on the German and other European markets. Futaba market their "German" sets as Robbe equipment, while the equivalent JR gear is branded as Graupner radio. These sets also have the "pizza box" European styling, presumably because German and other European buyers would shun sets not conforming to an accepted Euro "look".

The upshot of this John, is that Multiplex equipment is built to a standard far in excess of the minimum required. Multiplex radio equipment is used worldwide by the military for target drones and remote observation vehicles, such is it's reputation and reliability. Typically, in a ground range test with a fully collapsed Tx aerial, distances well in excess of 250 metres can be achieved. Multiplex themselves stipulate a minimum of 80 metres under ground range test conditions. Multiplex radio control equipment has been independantly tested (by a leading American r/c mag) as having just about the most secure rf link available. Surprisingly, HiTec equipment was found to have an rf link almost as good!

[JohnB]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for that, more I didn't know! I never realised that Futaba and JR were restricted as it were in Germany, hasn't the common market harnonized all this yet?

Thanks for the condensed history and update.

Regards - J

[gavin mack]

Reason Hitec is so good is basically the guts in Optic transmitter is multiplex design.

[BrianB]

No problem John.

I'm aware that you've probably still not heard anything to change your mind, but actually using a Multiplex set might well sway you.

Take PDR for example. He's stated openly on here that after being a Futaba user for 30 years, he made the switch to an Evo 9, and is now totally won over. PDR actually likened the FF9's software to a kiddies toy after using the EVO for a while! Seemed a tad rash at the time, but PDR isn't a man to mince his words.

I very recently purchased a secondhand EVO and I have to agree with PDR, the programming logic/layout is superb. I actually think I prefer it to my Mc4000 although it's obviously nowhere near as powerful, or ultimately as flexible.

[JohnB]

Take PDR for example. He's stated openly on here that after being a Futaba user for 30 years, he made the switch to an Evo 9, and is now totally won over. PDR actually likened the FF9's software to a kiddies toy after using the EVO for a while! Seemed a tad rash at the time, but PDR isn't a man to mince his words.

I had noticed this, he must hide it well 

No, still going to stick with the JR route I think because I now have quite a few Spektrum receivers. So, unless Multiplex bring out a 2.4GHz Tx, small sized format that will talk to the Spektrum Rx's BEFORE the JR ones hit the market I'll be staying with my decision.

Regards - John

[Chris_Rayner]

I've just noticed this You are not allowed to view links.
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https://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=23206

.  Tempting, very tempting.  Come on Multiplex, I may break soon!

[BrianB]

Hi Chris

An interesting development indeed. However, I'd still be tempted to hang on. Everything comes to he who waits.....

P.S. John, it's very unlikely any upcoming Multiplex 2.4ghz gear would "talk" to any other brand. The 2.4 scene doesn't seem to be going that way at all. It's my guess that Multiplex 2.4 gear will be different again from what's available just now.

[alexeames]

It's my guess that Multiplex 2.4 gear will be different again from what's available just now.

You mean streets better Brian.   

[BrianB]

Well Alex, for a few moments I did consider using the word BETTER instead of different, but I thought that'd be obvious enough to us Multiplexites anyway. 

[alexeames]

Well Alex, for a few moments I did consider using the word BETTER instead of different, but I thought that'd be obvious enough to us Multiplexites.

 

[JohnB]

P.S. John, it's very unlikely any upcoming Multiplex 2.4ghz gear would "talk" to any other brand.

Thats my assumptions too but the manufacturer that brings out a Tx that talks in all the other formats would surely be onto a winner.

I'm told on a regular basis how Multiplex are head and shoulder above the rest could this be what theyre up to?

Regards - J

[BrianB]

Hi John

I doubt it. I should imagine Multiplex are keeping their finger very much on the pulse regarding 2.4ghz John. But Multiplex have never been too concerned in the past that their gear wasn't compatible with other makes of equipment. 

No, I think they've probably had 2.4ghz gear in the development stages for some time (In fact I'm certain of it), but what they're probably doing right now is working on what'll make Multiplex 2.4ghz gear stand out from the crowd. And be assured John, it almost certainly will.

[JohnB]

Hi John

I doubt it. I should imagine Multiplex are keeping their finger very much on the pulse regarding 2.4ghz John. But Multiplex have never been too concerned in the past that their gear wasn't compatible with other makes of equipment.

No, I think they've probably had 2.4ghz gear in the development stages for some time (In fact I'm certain of it), but what they're doing right now is working on what'll make Multiplex 2.4ghz gear stand out from the crowd. And be assured John, it almost certainly will.

Time will tell, I'll watch with great interest.

Thanks for the comments chaps, it's been very enlightening in more ways than one.

Regards - J

[PeterO]

Thats my assumptions too but the manufacturer that brings out a Tx that talks in all the other formats would surely be onto a winner.

That's never going to happen.   It would require licensing of protocols/formats/w.h.y. that each manufacturer has developed to make their product unique.
PeterO.

[PDR]

Thats my assumptions too but the manufacturer that brings out a Tx that talks in all the other formats would surely be onto a winner.

Ain't going to happen - any more than it did for the PCM formats, and for much the same reasons.

PDR

[Andy Sayle]

I'm not so sure that it won't happen full stop.  take the Nomadio car radios for example.  Not only do they work well with their own format radios on 2.4GHz, they also happen to work rather well with the Spektrum branded surface receivers.

I don't think any of the major manufacturers (Fut, JR, MPX, etc) will support any of their competitors formats really, but it would be nice to think that someone like Nomadio would do it.  They are supposed to be working on some aircraft radios too, and if they are anything like their React car radio, I would certainly be thinking about trying one

Cheers
Andy

[The Doc]

Hi again John

Perhaps if Multiplex had the manufacturing base and marketing budget of Futaba, they'd sell considerably more equipment than they already do. For a relatively small r/c equipment manufacturer (about 50 people are employed by Multiplex in Germany) they enjoy excellent sales in most of Europe, particularly in Germany itself, and have done so for 40+ years. They've also been at the forefront of r/c technology for quite some time, being the first company to develop things like proportional control (1963), digital servos (1968), interchangeable Tx frequency modules (1978), PCM modulation (early 80's), 10kc channel spacing (1979) first programmable transmitter (1976) etc. Not a bad showing for a company with somewhat limited resources, compared to the big boys.

The German FTZ telecommunications regulatons mean that new Futaba and JR equipment as you know it cannot be sold in Germany. It simply does not comply with the regs as they currently stand. To get round these regs, both Futaba and JR have equipment built to FTZ standards specifically for sale on the German and other European markets. Futaba market their "German" sets as Robbe equipment, while the equivalent JR gear is branded as Graupner radio. These sets also have the "pizza box" European styling, presumably because German and other European buyers would shun sets not conforming to an accepted Euro "look".

The upshot of this John, is that Multiplex equipment is built to a standard far in excess of the minimum required. Multiplex radio equipment is used worldwide by the military for target drones and remote observation vehicles, such is it's reputation and reliability. Typically, in a ground range test with a fully collapsed Tx aerial, distances well in excess of 250 metres can be achieved. Multiplex themselves stipulate a minimum of 80 metres under ground range test conditions. Multiplex radio control equipment has been independantly tested (by a leading American r/c mag) as having just about the most secure rf link available. Surprisingly, HiTec equipment was found to have an rf link almost as good!

Absolutely awesome,  I am now presenting a toast to MPX for inventing all the features that make my JR a superior radio in 2007 

Come on Gord, I bet you didnt know all of that did you? 

CM

[BrianB]

I think what you actually mean Clive, is that you perceive your JR radio to be superior. Which of course is what those nice marketing folk at JR want you to think. They wouldn't be doing their jobs otherwise.

And I'm sure Gordon knows. It's all general information Clive. Available to anyone who cares to look for it. 

P.S. I'm curious Clive. If you're such a champion of the JR cause (as you have every right to be of course), why are you interested in/contributing to a thread on Multiplex 2.4ghz radios?

[SteveBB]

Whilst it's easy to give a wry smile/smirk/laugh at the eulogies that Brian bestows on MPX, you can't take away the fact he does back up his comments, as I'm sure he'd be roundly shot down if he was a tiny bit wrong. MPX isn't pretty gear, but then I'm sure if they wanted it all plastic chrome and big shiney switches they'd get round to it. It is functional, and it does it well according to the guys I chat to in the club. No, they're not universal MPX, off the top of my head there's Graupner, Futaba, Jr, Spektrum, MPX, even the now defunct Fleet! Incidentally, why is JR superior?

[BrianB]

If I get shot down Steve, I'll promptly eject and return with a vengeance! 

[SteveBB]

A Cabbie writes..

'I had that Chuck Yeager in the back of my cab once, that'll be fifteen quid please'

[The Doc]

And I'm sure Gordon knows. It's all general information Clive. Available to anyone who cares to look for it. 

P.S. I'm curious Clive. If you're such a champion of the JR cause (as you have every right to be of course), why are you interested in/contributing to a thread on Multiplex 2.4ghz radios?

I wouldnt say that I was a champion of the JR cause, I needed a radio fast as my zap had broken so I piled into modelshop (if only I'd gone to modelspot!) and said whats your best value radio and they sold me a JR 9xII 

As for why I'm contyributing to the 2.4GHz thread, I couldnt resist getting a nibble out of you Brian, I just love you encyclopedic knowledge of MPX rc gear and whenever I see a post like the one above I cant help but think of the phrase "I've started so I'll finish" 

CM

[BrianB]

But Steve, Chuck Yeager was the first through the sound barrier, and wouldn't possibly take unecessary risks. Therefore I can't imagine him ever climbing into the back of a Cab in London.