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November 21, 2018, 05:28:45 AM

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Author Topic: Electric Autogyro project  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline paulinfrance

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Electric Autogyro project
« on: November 05, 2018, 16:16:54 PM »
 :banghead: Well it's been raining for a long time here in the South of France, and wanted a winter project and not having anymore room in my garage for plane N° 44  :ev I was looking into another Autogyro, why may you ask  :''
 well normally my home made/design ones take 10 hours of building for  3,  5 minute flights and one broken blade in these 3 flights, also making my own ones it keeps me busy,  ^-^ I don't have a lath any more  :banghead: so its got to be made with a drill bench vice and of course a hammer and chisel  :af maybe a wood pack kit, or if I can bend up a teeter head, or use an old Shuttle helicopter head on an own design fuselage  :-X so ans suggestions please would be welcome  ;)
 I will be using a 3536 1100 kv motor on 3S 1400 mah drone batteries in it.

ps, I have made, flow and crashed many of them. :nananana:
 here are 3 of them,,,

thanks too all,,,,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 16:57:54 PM »
After reading the list of overwhelming reply's  $%&
 Out came an old aluminium TV Ariel, a spare Copter X head and an old 'attempt' of a
epoxy plate off of one of my old 2 bladed autogyros, and my hacksaw,,,  :study:
 the weather is crap over here for the moment and I have a new toy ( Harmon Kardon amplifier ) in my garage so listing to some of my 'British' music collection  :uk:
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Offline Gaspin

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 06:25:20 AM »
the weather is crap over here for the moment and I have a new toy ( Harmon Kardon amplifier ) in my garage so listing to some of my 'British' music collection  :uk:
Are you 'listing' to port or starboard, regardless, I am interested in the possibility of you producing a working gyro-copter. I need more constructive details than the type of music you are polluting the air with ! So; I presume any plan is just a mere figment in the brain cells at the moment, but would appreciate some photos of the gyro-copter as you go along.


Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 06:52:15 AM »
My music gives me my inspirations and along with my junk that I never throw away  :'' in front of me on the table is all I need to make most of my models, I do have a plan that I bought 15 years ago ( Decirva C-30 a ) in Spanish but it is a bit complicated, so here is a picture of my 'plans'   :ev I only put the two CD's their for the photo,,,  :''
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 16:06:31 PM »
Head, and the start of the blades,,
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 16:07:49 PM by paulinfrance »
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Offline THE BLACKBIRD

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 20:17:13 PM »
Thats an interesting jig you have there,
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Offline Gaspin

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 04:00:01 AM »
Now we are cooking, great photos, general questions,
1. why not use ready made heli blades,
2. what size of motor/ battery pack are you planning.

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 07:14:53 AM »
Yes the fibreglass head plate is drilled to give different angles ( it's reversible ) I think it's
called a flapping hinge, as the advancing blade goes up it's incidence goes down, and vice versa,
I made a mechanical one on my first Autogyro ( the yellow one ) which worked very well.
Helicopter blades DON'T WORK !, I have tried the old Schluter ones ( I had a load of unsold ones in my shop )
they don't have the right aerofoil or weight, or other 'magical' things that I don't know about  ^-^
 Don't forget it has been raining for 3 weeks over here, so nothing else to do,,  $%&

 I have a 3536 at 1100kv on 3S for this one, It was on a pusher the third photo which I originally had an OS .40 Fs
on it :af, it was later fitted with a kite as a delta ultra light, but it was ripped to pieces last week when I started clearing out some of the rubbish in my garage,,  :ev
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 11:58:53 AM »
As for batterys, I have a stock of them 1300/1500/2200/2600 and 3500mah,
 don't forget the biggest problem with Autogyros ( other than blades and head speed ) is it's weight,,  :study:
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 17:19:33 PM »
Opps I forgot this one finished around 5 years ago, and still flying,, here's a screen shot of the video and one while building it,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2018, 16:50:27 PM »
Still raining, so being cradled by Elton johns music,  :-X a lot has been going on,, I modified the aileron tilting mechanism, as being out of line with the ball pivot joint it was exactly 'catholic',,,  :-\

 I have a close up if interested, as you can see blades only need covering and balancing, and maybe a bit of lead in the tips, has any one done that ?. $%&
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 12:28:30 PM »
The mast is ready, Although the aileron servo arm on the head is nearer to it's hinge point, I will give it a "mix" so it won't tilt when pulling the elevator servo back,  I have gone for a novel way to install the mast into the fuselage, it just plugs in,,,  ^-^
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 13:46:39 PM »
Ok don't tell me that you have seen it a thousand times,  :''
Blade balancing, I use sheet adhesive 'scrounged' from sign righters :af, if you ask nicely
they will give you their scraps,,
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Offline pheasant_plucker

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 14:26:20 PM »
I used to balance each blade individually first by balancing them on a piece of rod then balance them as a whole like that.

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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 14:53:58 PM »
It isn't the best way of balancing blades, I made one out of piano wire and hung them on it, then used the knife blade system to show me where to put the tape ,,

 on this sort of thing,, but hung one on each side,

if it rains tomorrow I will make one up and see what the difference is,,
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Offline pheasant_plucker

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2018, 17:12:16 PM »
My method was to teeter each blade on a piece of rod and mark the point that they balanced at. Weight was then added to  the root of the blade which balanced further towards thetip so each blade had their CG in the same loacation. The point of balance was then marked on the balanced blade to match the other one. I then balanced on the knife edge like you and added weight where neccesary to the blades marked balance point.
The result was usually as smooth as roger Moore drinking a Guiness.

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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2018, 17:43:21 PM »
I did try that with piano wire, but it never seemed to stop at the same place,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2018, 11:09:57 AM »
It's nearly finished, I tried spinning up the head but with the single bolt fixing ( what I have always done ) it was nearly impossible, especially as I tried it with a pair of unbalanced blades, with balanced ones it span well, but to stop the head swinging back and forth, I wedged a couple of 'O' rings which did a good job, anyone out their tried as in my second photo two bolts in the blades ?.
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2018, 16:05:54 PM »
All covered and finished, rotor diameter, 97cm, weight 950 grams without the battery,
radio sorted, only the 'hang angle' to look at and see if my motor, size and weight are
consistent with other models ^-^, and whether to leave the head flapping or to put my 'O' rings back,
I am still open to any advice,,  :study:
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Offline Gaspin

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2018, 08:39:03 AM »
Paul, what size are the blades and can you post a photo of their section.
I notice no elevator is fitted on the tail group, normal or optional??

Offline THE BLACKBIRD

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2018, 10:23:01 AM »
Interesting build Paul, and  very quick
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2018, 10:39:37 AM »
No elevator, it only complicates things, :'' blades have a 'fantasy' profile of mine, like boat building, if it looks right, it is !, :af
 blades, 45.5cm x 5.2cm, thickness 8mm weight, 185 grams.
first picture, blade section, second my new blade balancer, and the third, the amount of tape that needed to be put on one of the blades to balance it, the small square on the left blade give me a 1cm difference on the scales, so very accurate,,
Now ready to fly or crash,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2018, 13:07:05 PM »
I have just 'garden tested' it, this is comprised of running around in my garden with it in my hand over my head,
as it's lunch time in France and that's "sacré",no one has sent an Ambulance or the Police, I have put an 'O' ring back into the head to cushion it from balancing back and forth, also I cut up some old British phone cards to change the negative pitch on it as it wasn't spinning up, only one 'slither' did the best job,
 I have also cut out a cross in the head with my mini grinder so I can use my electric screwdriver to run the head up. :co
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 13:08:51 PM by paulinfrance »
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2018, 15:10:25 PM »
I found some information on the LA-500 it is similar in size and weight, and rotor diameter, so I looked at my settings and angles and I wasn't far out from theirs, I set my more or less the same, so with any luck it might even fly tomorrow, weather permitting,,  ^-^
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2018, 17:33:52 PM »
A quick 'hop' filmed today 2 klm/h wind and it spun up well, I do have a short video :'(, but obviously not enough down thrust on the motor, and overpowered, and maybe I should to shorten the mast,,,
 If I get overwhelmed by my posting, I will upload the video on yooboob,,  :co
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2018, 18:14:24 PM »
Don't hold your breath,,

 :-\, https://youtu.be/iAPAg5DQI24
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Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2018, 18:26:56 PM »
That looked to be more of a Fosbury Paul.  How do you measure 'hang angle' and how do you tie the rotor and elevator incidences to that? 
flying's easy - it's getting it back down in one piece that's the hard part

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2018, 19:37:36 PM »
Motor and elevator are all in line, mast at 90° then hang angle at 12° done with a protractor at the top of the rotor mast, 20° back angle on the head to spin it up and then ( I must check as I didn't write it down ) either 7° or 11° for normal flight, I have watched my video a few times, it looks like the head angle is too much, and not enough down thrust on the motor, I have made another f/g teeter blade plate with 11° and 15° angle on the blades,,
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Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2018, 12:32:54 PM »
Ah right!  I was thinking 'hang angle' must be something related to the balance point.
flying's easy - it's getting it back down in one piece that's the hard part

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2018, 12:38:00 PM »
Yes Sir !, I have shortened the mast by 5cm, changed the 3 bladed 9 x 5 prop for a 11 x 4 wood one, and added around 3° down thrust and 2° side thrust, off to the model field,,
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2018, 16:03:55 PM »
Got to be a war bird if you want a response on here Paul, been qn interesting build in my opinion
Thanks
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2018, 16:24:44 PM »
Paul, do you think the teeter head helps at all?  I ask as Richard Harris has used a rigid fibreglass blade mount on his designs.
flying's easy - it's getting it back down in one piece that's the hard part

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2018, 17:00:11 PM »
Funny that you should say that 'Blackbird' as it has now become a German 'Warbird'  :nananana:
and for RobC, I tried 3 bladed ones and only trouble I have a video od my C-30 video, I have come to the conclusion that the tail surfaces are too small, so back to the workshop,,  :study:

 Here is the video of my C-30 head on my experimental fuselage,  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgtgyt

not much fun, my own 2 bladed mechanical head lasted till I throw  it away after around 20/30 flights, first a mds .40 ( yes one that ran), later an OS 40 FS and at the end a .53 2 stroke,,
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 18:14:25 PM by paulinfrance »
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2018, 08:26:16 AM »
Another 'Hop, Step and Crash' yesterday,,,
The 5 klm/h wind was perfect less aileron throws and a 8 x 6 prop with 1/2 throttle got it into the air like a plane, :study: then silly me  :banghead: gave it full throttle to get some height, it did the same as my first flight up it went keeling over to the left and in it went, snapping off the tail,, so today a bit more down thrust,,,
No one at the field so no video,,
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2018, 11:59:11 AM »
I have been wondering if my 'tail feathers' are too small, rotor diameter, 97 cm and tail plane 34 x 10cm

which gives rotor surface at 7.400cm2 and the tail at 34cm2, only 22% ?,,, anyone pretty please ?. $%&
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 12:09:32 PM »
which gives rotor surface at 7.400cm2 and the tail at 34cm2, only 22% ?,,, anyone pretty please ?. $%&

My sums make that a rotor disk area of ~7,400cm2 and a tailplane area of 340cm2, so the tailplane area would be only 4.6% of the rotor disk area.

That does sound rather small.

 ₽0.00006 supplied,

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2018, 12:50:59 PM »
Yes thanks PDR,,, but since my last posting I have seen smaller ones, 7°c in my garage,
 so when the 'yellow jacket' road blocks finish I will get myself an infra red heater for my garage and make a larger one, any idea what size would do the job ?.

 thanks Paul
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2018, 12:52:15 PM »
Beat you to it a 1.5 kilo watt heater  ;D

 no seriously the tail plane area,,  ^-^
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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 02:49:19 »
Paul. is the CG set at the base of the pylon or the axis of the blade rotation, you haven't mentioned any position sofar. But still an interesting, original thread, more please on getting the beast to fly.

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Electric Autogyro project
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 12:13:34 »
I have balanced it from the top  ball joint where the head pivots, ( fulcrum )  in the 2 photos you can see where 
Photo N° 1 is spot on the pivot point ( 13.5° ) and the second photo just behind it on a 3 mm piano wire ( 12.5° )
 I really need  ( if I am right ) 14°, I have also changed the blade angle from -3.5° to - 2.5°, to see if it spins up to a higher speed.
Mode 2 THE only way to fly


 

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