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Author Topic: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz  (Read 3533 times)

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Offline pooh

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possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« on: March 29, 2017, 09:50:27 AM »
as an inveterate 35MHz flier I am considering getting some 2.4GHz gear, on the basis that my Sanwa 8000 (and 6000 for buddy-box) are, like me, getting a bit ancient, and all my receivers are at least as old, if not older and have seen quite a bit of service.

I fly sport IC/glider/hotter than glider leccy/slope combat and occasional fun-fly/indoor, 6 channels usually ok, occasionally 7. Never had more than 8 flyable models. Like to have TX programmable for model settings.

I spend my working life designing and coding microprocessor electronics and have absolutely no wish to do that as part of my hobby, I want a box that does the job with minimal input from me  :)

I don't believe that having lots of bells and whistles will make me a better pilot, and I don't need to show off my (lack of) wealth or boost my ego.

so, any suggestions ?
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"


Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 09:59:11 AM »
I'd stick a Frsky hack into each of the Sanwa's  :af

Offline pooh

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 10:43:23 AM »
despite my electronics experience, I'd prefer something that is off-the-shelf working, I try to keep hobby and work separate (the same reason I haven't used any Amateur Radio gear for many years, as my original interest was building the transmitters and receivers)

Also, is the Frsky gear actually "settled", I read stuff about beta testing, programming, operating systems etc, which again I want to avoid.
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"


Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 16:15:38 PM »
I think you're exaggerating the electronics element Pooh - its 3 wires   ;D
And the Frsky development talk is about the X series, v and D series have been stable for 7 or more years!
Cheers
Phil

Offline itsme

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2017, 16:21:45 PM »
I can only reply from my own experience- I went (five years ago) to 2.4 Hitech using a module in my Futaba FF9. I still use that but bought a Hitech Aurora and it has been faultless and in five years not had the slightest glitch or failure in binding or anything. I use Nmh batteries and have never had a brownout. I presume all radios are this reliable, but that's my experience. Highly recommended.


Offline Kevin Fairgrieve (NSS)

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2017, 17:17:56 PM »
despite my electronics experience, I'd prefer something that is off-the-shelf working, I try to keep hobby and work separate (the same reason I haven't used any Amateur Radio gear for many years, as my original interest was building the transmitters and receivers)

Also, is the Frsky gear actually "settled", I read stuff about beta testing, programming, operating systems etc, which again I want to avoid.


As you may know I converted my old Sanwa gear to FrSky a number of years ago. See this thread. http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/rc-radio-gear/sanwa-rd6000-super-conversion-to-frsky-2-4ghz/


I then moved to Spektrum (less said the better) after a while I converted my DX7 to FrSky using the hack module.


I now exclusively fly FrSky in the form of a Taranis and two Horus TX. Open TX can take a while to master, but the FrSky offering is said to be more user friendly. Let me know next time you are at the patch and I will bring them all for you to have a play with.

Must say it was a bit odd to see that peg on my old 35MHz frequency. Guess you flew recently and left you (new) peg on.

Kev

Offline Charlie C

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2017, 18:07:35 PM »
Oh dear Lindsey, a potential can of worms opened up.

For those who frequent various RC Face ache pages, you will see that every radio make gets a slagging somewhere down the line, though Spektrum gets more than most.

Funnily enough, I moved to Spektrum, or JR/Spektrum first then  Spekky a fair few years ago and have had no hassle.
I know of others, NSS and Mudders for instance who have.

You kinda pays your money and takes your chance mate.There are some i would avoid personally but i wouldn'tname any on a public forum. :co

Charlie C


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Offline EricF

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 19:10:22 PM »
I bought my first Futaba system back in the early 70s and have continued with that brand ever since, as every bit of Futaba kit I have owned has been absolutely reliable.
I started off with a 6M, followed by 4M,Conquest, FC-18 and have recently just bought a 14SG, (only because I needed more channels)..
I'm not old, I've just been young for a very long time!

Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 19:41:02 PM »
...I don't need to show off my (lack of) wealth...

If you're strapped and looking for a really good budget set, these are superb:
http://www.banggood.com/FlySky-FS-i6-2_4G-6CH-AFHDS-RC-Transmitter-With-FS-iA6B-Receiver-p-983537.html
Massively popular, tremendous range, has battery telemetry built-in and a wide variety of receivers available including indoor micro bricks. 
Cheers
Phil



Offline The Stig

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 19:41:51 PM »
I am with Phil,
I love my Sanwa gear , I converted many to 2.4 both Frysky and Corona,  and they all have given perfect service, and they are not difficult to convert  even if I had to ask Phil for advice nown and again , ! I do think Frysky would be the way to go as it has the auto failsafe  whereas the Corona does not ,
all a bit superceeded as I now use Sanwa 2.4 SD10g

cheers 

Offline pooh

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 21:06:46 PM »

Must say it was a bit odd to see that peg on my old 35MHz frequency. Guess you flew recently and left you (new) peg on.

Kev


ooops  :''

realised I had left the peg when I got home ---

smacked wrist, haven't even been accepted as a Club member and I make newbie mistake  ::)  :embarassed:

and thanks for the comments, guys  :af
Confucious he say "more than one aircraft in the same airspace leads to structural failure"

Offline satinet

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 09:18:21 AM »
The Hitec Aurora is certainly a very easy TX to live with and the RF link is very solid. 

Offline FrankS

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2017, 20:27:04 PM »
Hitec Flash 7 could be worth a look to.

Offline Gaspin

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2017, 07:12:23 AM »
Turnigy i6S great value, great rx's available. Buy 2 for the price of one so called "branded" radios. As a bonus it looks like a Sanwa set I had in the 80's. $%&

Offline Wiz

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2017, 07:18:35 AM »
Everybody loves a good retro thread ;)
The buck stops here.

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2017, 16:53:50 PM »
No retro for me, there is only one Hitec Aurora and Spectrum left at our field, too many radio blackouts,,,
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Offline itsme

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017, 17:10:39 PM »
No retro for me, there is only one Hitec Aurora and Spectrum left at our field, too many radio blackouts,,,
Never had any problems with my Aurora and the others who have them have never said anything bad.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk



Offline paulinfrance

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2017, 06:23:33 AM »
Never had any problems with my Aurora and the others who have them have never said anything bad.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

 Loads over here, freezing at less than 100 metres, there were 4 on the field, now down to 1,,,  :study:
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Offline itsme

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 07:45:59 AM »
Loads over here, freezing at less than 100 metres, there were 4 on the field, now down to 1,,,  :study:
Thats a shocker. First glitch I get I'm back to Futaba...still, as I said, not had any problems.

Offline itsme

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 07:50:24 AM »
Mind you, first time I came across Hitec I was watching a guy at Goosedale on buddy lead using a 35meg Hitec radio with a Futaba Challenger as the slave. The model was a speck in the sky. I looked closely and said in a quiet voice..."should one of you not have the aerial up?".....panic ensued, but the model flew without any worries. I was very impressed.

Offline Raymond

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2017, 22:04:51 PM »
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but its kinda linked to my question.

I havent been doing much flying in the last few years but still have quite a few IC aerobats and a couple of eceletic models and was also thinking if I ever wanted to fly any of them I should really switch to 2.4 as a couple of times I had some serious glitching on 35.

I actualy bought one of the Frsky hacks and fitted it to a Hitec 6 a few years back (cant remember how many) but somehow I could never bring myself to trust it for anything other than park fly leccys like my formosa.

Are the current rx's likely to be compatible with my hack ?

Is it safe for larger faster models ?

What is the BMFA insurance situation with these kits as I assume they are not CE approved ?

Thanks

Raymond
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probabi

Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2017, 22:18:49 PM »
]I actualy bought one of the Frsky hacks and fitted it to a Hitec 6 a few years back (cant remember how many) but somehow I could never bring myself to trust it for anything other than park fly leccys like my formosa.
Thats a shame. Competently fitted, they're as good as anything and better than many  :af
Quote from: Raymond
Are the current rx's likely to be compatible with my hack ?
Depends on which DIY you used, VHT or DHT? (though receivers are available for all Frsky modules.)
Quote from: Raymond
Is it safe for larger faster models ?
I trust it over Spektrum, so do many, many others  :)
Quote from: Raymond
What is the BMFA insurance situation with these kits as I assume they are not CE approved ?
Its liability insurance. Many thousands of Frsky modules are in use. And yes they are approved!  ::)
Cheers
Phil

PS
Turnigy i6S great value, great rx's available.
That one is a badged Flysky i6
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 22:22:19 PM by Phil_G »

Offline Raymond

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 22:59:51 PM »
I will take the tx apart and see which kit it was, but I checked the rx and its a v8r4 and there seems to be a v8r4 2 now ??

Radio control seems to be a hobby within a hobby now, and as an electronic engineer I could understand it if I could be bothered but to be honest I enjoy a quick slope gliding session or a bit of fun with a small leccy model and don't really want to be bothered with the technicalities of transmission standards, and definitely have no need for telemetry lol
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probabi

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 06:40:57 AM »
I fly around 20 Frsky receivers in my planes ( the 6 channel ones ) and they are bombproof, as good as any Futaba 617. :af
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

Offline Raymond

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 16:03:32 PM »
Thanks

Is that the FrSky X6R 6/16 Ch. S.Bus Receiver ?

is that likely to work with the older tx modules ?

The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probabi

Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2017, 16:55:56 PM »
is that [FrSky X6R 6/16 Ch. S.Bus Receiver] likely to work with the older tx modules ?
No it wont as that particular receiver uses the D16 protocol.
You need to match the protocol between the tx & rx, your module will be either:
1) a VHT which does only V8 protocol (non-telemetry)
or
2) a DHT which is switchable between V8 (non-telemetry) and D8 (telemetry) protocols

Both V8 and D8 compatible receivers are readily available, T9 Hobbysport is one good supplier, RC Life is another. Dont fall into the trap of thinking old is bad, new is good. The old V8 protocol kit including your own V8R4 receiver was quite superb, with several kilometres range unmatched by the new X/D16 gear, largely due to conformation with new EU regulations (which dont apply to the older gear).

Cheers
Phil
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 17:03:44 PM by Phil_G »

Offline Raymond

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2017, 23:12:25 PM »
Cheers

now if i could just give up this work lark and have some free time !
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probabi

Offline FrankS

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 08:19:20 AM »


 Dont fall into the trap of thinking old is bad, new is good. The old V8 protocol kit including your own V8R4 receiver was quite superb, with several kilometres range unmatched by the new X/D16 gear, largely due to conformation with new EU regulations (which dont apply to the older gear).

Cheers
Phil

Why? I thought the new LBT regs were the same power as the older regs, so why is it lower range? Or is it that the newer Rxs are receiving more information in the same time frame and that reduces sensitivity ?

Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2017, 09:57:47 AM »
Why?
V8 and D8 use a low datarate (31k bps) and lower rate=greater range (Shannon-Hartley theory). To comply with new EU regs Frsky's first attempt was to reduce MU by hugely upping the datarate, which is why it wasnt  a successful solution with poor range. They then dropped the rate back to 70k bps and went for LBT.  For a given system 31kbps will give greater range than 70kbps and typical V8 range was several km, verified many times.
LBT works well if everyone uses it, in a mixed environment non-LBT will always win.
Cheers
Phil
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:23:49 AM by Phil_G »

Offline FrankS

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 11:10:24 AM »
V8 and D8 use a low datarate (31k bps) and lower rate=greater range (Shannon-Hartley theory). To comply with new EU regs Frsky's first attempt was to reduce MU by hugely upping the datarate, which is why it wasnt  a successful solution with poor range. They then dropped the rate back to 70k bps and went for LBT.  For a given system 31kbps will give greater range than 70kbps and typical V8 range was several km, verified many times.
LBT works well if everyone uses it, in a mixed environment non-LBT will always win.
Cheers
Phil

Phil, thanks for that, that is what I understood and that the only difference between the earlier regs and EU LBT is the listen before transmit requirement, but the power and utilisation are the same, so for a given data rate the range on both these systems will be the same, just that a LBT system will jump/skip a channel if it detects a simultaneous transmission whereas a non-LBT will just go ahead anyway.

Offline Phil_G

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Re: possible plunge taking - 2.4GHz
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2017, 11:22:29 AM »
Phil, thanks for that, that is what I understood and that the only difference between the earlier regs and EU LBT is the listen before transmit requirement, but the power and utilisation are the same, so for a given data rate the range on both these systems will be the same, just that a LBT system will jump/skip a channel if it detects a simultaneous transmission whereas a non-LBT will just go ahead anyway.
Thats the case for preEU/postEU X/D16 Frank but the key thing is that V8/D8 has a lower bitrate than X/D16 and so greater range. Power doesnt come into it as that has never been changed, other than that <10mw erp is exempt from the new regs.
(Off topic, I've always maintained that DSM2 is NOT illegal as many have stated, its just a protocol and at 10mw complies fully with EN300328 - by simply reducing the output to 10mw on DSM2, Spekky could have accommodated all the indoor and Park-fly BNF enthusiasts rather than abandoning them or forcing them to buy new.)
Cheers
Phil
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 13:33:42 PM by Phil_G »


 

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