money
RSS Facebook

RCMF

*

RCMF Donations

Enjoy using RCMF? How about a wee donation to help us keep you in the style to which you've become accustomed?

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 18, 2019, 16:16:30 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Articles

Author Topic: Easy Flap install  (Read 30620 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

This topic contains a post which is marked as Best Answer. Press here if you would like to see it.

isoaritfirst

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Easy Flap install
« on: March 16, 2009, 09:09:18 AM »
Visit;
Picasa Web Albums - mike - RCRCM Sigma


The text and pictures within this Sigma build detail the installation technique. With a few detail changes as I was building two sets of wings each to have identical installs - It has worked so well that neither wing requires any sub trim over the other.


This Text and pictures are based around my FS3 flap servo install. (x- over installation using flap offset mix)
The servo will be fitted onto the top skin of the wing with the arm facing downwards, and servo shaft closer  to the wing spar than the TE. The pushrod will cross bottom to top exiting through the top skin to meet the top mounted flap horn. The transmitter will be programmed to give a flap offset mix. (IMPORTANT - don't use this technique if you are unable to offset the servo centre position. approx 25deg/95deg.)

Calculate the lgth of push rod needed. It can be a best guess a few mm either way won't matter, and make up the rods so that a clevis is soldered to the servo end and short threads are left at the opposite end for the flap surface clevis.

On the bench;
Plug the two servos into a receiver and move them both to maximum deflection in opposite directions. (Use a clean aileron input into each).Switch off the receiver to freeze the servo at that position.
Useing the shortest servo arm available (usually around 7 to 8mm ctrs). Fit the servo arms so that each of them is positioned at the maximum rearward position. This will be when the servo arm is pointing directly at the hole in the flap horn.  Experiment with different arms until you find two that give very similar locations on their splines. With Futaba 2,4 or 6 splined arms each have a slightly different angle from the centre so its important to get a matched pair. Switch on the servo power again and check their alignment.

Fit the two push rods onto the servo arms, and using the transmitter move both servo to their maximum opposite direction and switch off. With the servos sitting head to head on the bench the clevises will now be fouling the servo centre shaft and forcing the rods to be pointing 45deg up away from the bench.
Grind the clevis keeper and also clean up the servo arm to allow the rods to almost touch the bench at the point where they start to foul. Make them both identical. Remember that when the flap clevis is attached they will be longer. You may not be able to achieve full forward deflection of the servo, you will need to make a judgement call as to how much you are prepared to remove from the clevis, to how much loss of rotation you can afford. You should be able to get somewhere around 110 deg total without too much trouble.

With the servo arm as far forward as possible,(transmitter driven) trial fit the servo into the wing. Screw on the second clevis and attach to the flap.
With the servo arm at its furthest forward rotation and everything connected up hold the flap surface deflected by the maximum amount of up (aileron) you require.  Now adjust the rod length to position the servo appropriately in the wing pocket. Don't be greedy with the amount of up flap 5mm up at the root is about right. When happy manually force the servo arm around slightly until the flap surface is level.
Remove everything and solder the flap clevis onto the rod at that position. Make the second rod EXACTLYthe same length and solder together.

Position the second servo’s rotation point by using the transmitter,  to approx match the one just removed. Take a reading off the transmitter as to its position. Set the first one, using the transmitter to the same position. This will be the rotation point where the surface is level. Aim for them both to be identical.

Now connect everything up, with the servo powered at the position that gives a straight flap surface. Make a transmitter output channel that has the appropriate offset so that the servo will stay put, it will be around 75% deflection (Keep the servo powered up while you do this. ) add some glue to the servo pocket and then tape the flap surface straight and check that the pushrod runs perpendicullar to the surface hinge and runs through any exit holes cleanly. Now simply allow the servo to find its natural position in the wing and  squeeze it into the glue bed.  

I hold the servos in position while they dry by placing my lead melting pot onto the servo. The addition of a small piece of blue foam sitting on the servo creates a raised area for the pot to sit on.
Don't use much weight - just enough to keep everything still, you don't want to deform your skins. Use 30minute epoxy and microballoons.

When everything is dry and the servo is switched on to a clean channel it will centre with the flap surface probably deflected down by around 30deg .
You now need to apply a flap offset into the program to bring the surface back to level.

Standard servo rotation is 120 deg (+- 60deg) Usable rotation with a crossover installation is probably closer to 110 deg.  But by using flap offset this can be set  in the region of +20 -90deg.

NOTES;
With most modern mouldies the surface horns are predetermined and fixed so no adjustment is available here.  (another subject)
The amount of down going flap will be the maximum achievable with a short servo arm (mounted inside the wing skin) More flap can be added at the expense of up flap(aileron).
So when deciding how much up flap you need – do not be greedy – take a realistic approach.
If you do want more of everything then you will need longer servo arms, which bring their own problems. (yet another subject)
The install is not geometrically perfect for minimum slop at level, the servo position is not perfect for that but gives advantages at other points of deflection. (and another )
At maximum deflection the servo arm will be directly in line with the push rod – which will save the servo gears if you are prone to landing flap down. It also gives the servo maximum torque at the point where it is needed most.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 22:26:28 PM by isoaritfirst »


Offline mr ed

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 18
  • Posts: 4,820
  • Liked: 17
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap instal.
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 10:25:40 AM »
Excellent, thanks again. This needs a sticky.
"I learned a lot from my second marriage... I learned they won't sell you a hand gun if you're crying..."

Offline Zim

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 32
  • Posts: 6,625
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • Foamy catching!
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 13:09:43 PM »
Excellent, thanks again. This needs a sticky.

Agreed - done!


Offline Hambone

  • Hambone the inevitable
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Wing Commander
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 319
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 00:42:49 AM »
Visit;
Picasa Web Albums - mike - RCRCM Sigma


The text and pictures within this Sigma build detail the installation technique. With a few detail changes as I was building two sets of wings each to have identical installs - It has worked so well that neither wing requires any sub trim over the other.


This Text and pictures are based around my FS3 flap servo install. (x- over installation using flap offset mix)
The servo will be fitted onto the top skin of the wing with the arm facing downwards, and servo shaft closer  to the wing spar than the TE. The pushrod will cross bottom to top exiting through the top skin to meet the top mounted flap horn. The transmitter will be programmed to give a flap offset mix. (IMPORTANT - don't use this technique if you are unable to offset the servo centre position. approx 25deg/95deg.)

Calculate the lgth of push rod needed. It can be a best guess a few mm either way won't matter, and make up the rods so that a clevis is soldered to the servo end and short threads are left at the opposite end for the flap surface clevis.

On the bench;
Plug the two servos into a receiver and move them both to maximum deflection in opposite directions. (Use a clean aileron input into each).Switch off the receiver to freeze the servo at that position.
Useing the shortest servo arm available (usually around 7 to 8mm ctrs). Fit the servo arms so that each of them is positioned at the maximum rearward position. This will be when the servo arm is pointing directly at the hole in the flap horn.  Experiment with different arms until you find two that give very similar locations on their splines. With Futaba 2,4 or 6 splined arms each have a slightly different angle from the centre so its important to get a matched pair. Switch on the servo power again and check their alignment.

Fit the two push rods onto the servo arms, and using the transmitter move both servo to their maximum opposite direction and switch off. With the servos sitting head to head on the bench the clevises will now be fouling the servo centre shaft and forcing the rods to be pointing 45deg up away from the bench.
Grind the clevis keeper and also clean up the servo arm to allow the rods to almost touch the bench at the point where they start to foul. Make them both identical. Remember that when the flap clevis is attached they will be longer. You may not be able to achieve full forward deflection of the servo, you will need to make a judgement call as to how much you are prepared to remove from the clevis, to how much loss of rotation you can afford. You should be able to get somewhere around 110 deg total without too much trouble.

With the servo arm as far forward as possible,(transmitter driven) trial fit the servo into the wing. Screw on the second clevis and attach to the flap.
With the servo arm at its furthest forward rotation and everything connected up hold the flap surface deflected by the maximum amount of up (aileron) you require.  Now adjust the rod length to position the servo appropriately in the wing pocket. Don't be greedy with the amount of up flap 5mm up at the root is about right. When happy manually force the servo arm around slightly until the flap surface is level.
Remove everything and solder the flap clevis onto the rod at that position. Make the second rod EXACTLYthe same length and solder together.

Position the second servo’s rotation point by using the transmitter,  to approx match the one just removed. Take a reading off the transmitter as to its position. Set the first one, using the transmitter to the same position. This will be the rotation point where the surface is level. Aim for them both to be identical.

Now connect everything up, with the servo powered at the position that gives a straight flap surface. Make a transmitter output channel that has the appropriate offset so that the servo will stay put, it will be around 75% deflection (Keep the servo powered up while you do this. ) add some glue to the servo pocket and then tape the flap surface straight and check that the pushrod runs perpendicullar to the surface hinge and runs through any exit holes cleanly. Now simply allow the servo to find its natural position in the wing and  squeeze it into the glue bed.  

I hold the servos in position while they dry by placing my lead melting pot onto the servo. The addition of a small piece of blue foam sitting on the servo creates a raised area for the pot to sit on.
Don't use much weight - just enough to keep everything still, you don't want to deform your skins. Use 30minute epoxy and microballoons.

When everything is dry and the servo is switched on to a clean channel it will centre with the flap surface probably deflected down by around 30deg .
You now need to apply a flap offset into the program to bring the surface back to level.

Standard servo rotation is 120 deg (+- 60deg) Usable rotation with a crossover installation is probably closer to 110 deg.  But by using flap offset this can be set  in the region of +20 -90deg.

NOTES;
With most modern mouldies the surface horns are predetermined and fixed so no adjustment is available here.  (another subject)
The amount of down going flap will be the maximum achievable with a short servo arm (mounted inside the wing skin) More flap can be added at the expense of up flap(aileron).
So when deciding how much up flap you need – do not be greedy – take a realistic approach.
If you do want more of everything then you will need longer servo arms, which bring their own problems. (yet another subject)
The install is not geometrically perfect for minimum slop at level, the servo position is not perfect for that but gives advantages at other points of deflection. (and another )
At maximum deflection the servo arm will be directly in line with the push rod – which will save the servo gears if you are prone to landing flap down. It also gives the servo maximum torque at the point where it is needed most.



Mike - outstanding - can I use this in my instruction manuals - with full credit to your good self of course!

James.
Wot me worry?

Offline RustyKnee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 8
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 955
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
  • Got sheep poo on his glider
  • BMFA Number: S169313
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2009, 06:22:36 AM »
I read this a couple of times last night, but yesterday was a long day so I didn't ask questions about it. I'll have another read tonight. It seems to make sense mostly, I think my first question was why use an aileron channel to set the servos at opposite ends?

Stu
I have started recording my rc glider race practicing for post analysis....geek alert!


Offline RustyKnee

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 8
  • -Receive: 5
  • Posts: 955
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
  • Got sheep poo on his glider
  • BMFA Number: S169313
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 19:37:24 PM »
Any channel will do - just make sure its a fresh- clean signal. you dont want any mixes or sub trims etc, just a full 120degrees of clean input and a centre that is true.

ok cool, cheers mate

Hopefully I will make a start sunday, work is mental at the moment and helping a friend move house saturday.

Stu
I have started recording my rc glider race practicing for post analysis....geek alert!

Offline Polarhawk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Pilot Officer
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 2
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 17:17:04 PM »
Thank's "isoarfirst"  :) :) ;)
Your descriptions is of great value for me to...  ;)

Cheers..
Einar - from the arctic border  :)
Born in UK!


Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 11:54:49 AM »
Here's a diagram of what Mike is talking about.
This is with the surface at neutral obviously.

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 11:58:47 AM »
This is with the flap at full crow deployment.

What is interesting is that the servo is hardly having to use any torque to hold the surface at this position because of the position of the servo horn. As Mike describes the horn is pointing nearly directly down the line of the pushrods so very little force from the surface is acting to rotate the servo arm.  Similarly forces from landing with the flaps down are going to be far less. 



Offline 9zapman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Wing Commander
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 365
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 21:43:27 PM »
Mike,I have read this servo setup 3times.can you just confirm that you solder both clevis at each end?
You say solder the servo end first when you have them side by side in the pic..then further on you say fit the flap clevis and adjust to length then solder it???

I can only assume this setup gives a perfect zero position as there would be no way of manually adjusting it afterwards.Sub trim yes but this would spoil the setup.

I have answered my own question really as you would not want different lengths anyway(if you manually adjusted them afterwards)as the geometry would be wrong.
I apologise in advance if i have misunderstood the post but it must really work to be brave enough to  solder both ends..I will find out soon ,I am on a luna 2 build and will try it....
There are 10 kinds of people,those who understand binary ,and those who dont.

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 21:46:26 PM »
it actually makes the install easier as one variable is taken away. I.e. how far the servo is from the trailing edge. And you never have to adjust the pushrod because it has to be the right

Marked as best answer by on December 06, 2017, 23:43:54 PM

Offline 9zapman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Wing Commander
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 15
  • Posts: 365
  • Liked: 0
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 18:06:12 PM »
Thanks mike,Just one more thing with a few answers.epoxy and micro balloons..what ratio do you mix them and does it differ depending on the strength required.
i.e....for servos in wing,ballast tube fixing with carbon mat and finally gluing the front of the luna 2 to the rear fuz.


I can understand it makes the mix lighter but theres got to be a point where it reduces strength  etc?.....ChrisT
There are 10 kinds of people,those who understand binary ,and those who dont.

Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 21:57:06 PM »
Right I think I have all of the above sorted BUT..................... On the pred the surface arm is really short like 3mm exposed . So am I measuring from the hinge line ? I am fitting savox 225's and have the option to go with 4mm from centre arms or up to 11mm arms , I take it I am aiming for around 7-8mm ?

Lee
P.S. I want to glue them in tomorrow so a quick answer would be much appreciated :)
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 22:10:07 PM »
yes, measure from the hinge line. This is the pivot point.

Make your servo horn something like 2/3 or maybe 3/4 as long as the control horn.

If you think about it, if your servo rotates 90 degrees down, say, and is 2/3 the size of the flap horn, the flap will basically rotate 2/3rds as much i.e 60 degrees, which is not far off what you want (maybe a little more though).

Hth

Offline Zim

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 32
  • Posts: 6,625
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • Foamy catching!
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 00:23:25 AM »
Hey Lee

Make them as short as you possibly can mate. Ailerons shorter!

Z

Offline geoffers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 583
  • Liked: 4
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 07:01:26 AM »
Not sure if this is any help (as I'm new to this game) so feel free to get the mods to delete it, if it's clouding the issue... :co

I'm just setting up the control surfaces for my Sunbird, and figured this may help me getting the servo horns setup OK

I made up a template, using a neat protractor pdf file that someone posted here (blowed if I can find the thread again though  >:( )
Then slid one template onto a wing, and using the suggested control throws (given in +/- mm) marked the actual angular deflections on the template to use as the baseline in the setup.

I then put a clevis/rod onto the control horn & measured the distance the rod moved between the endpoints of the throws - in my case this was about 8.5mm for the flap travel & 3.5mm for the aileron travel.

Then put the clevis/rod onto the servo horn on the lowest hole (8mm from shaft) & measured the distance the rod moved between the end points of the servo throws - this was just under 15mm total (much more than required).

I'm planning to drill another hole on the servo horn about 5mm from the shaft for the flaps and as close as I can get for the ailerons, which should give me about the correct travel for the flap on full servo throw, but may need to reduce the servo throw a little for the ailerons.

Otherwise, planning to follow Mike's destructions as per this thread... :af
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 08:34:27 AM by geoffers »
Cheers, Geoff

Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 16:44:53 PM »
Hi to add a new piece to this

The MPX evo9 screen set's up like this (on the servo calibrate screen)

+110%
  +70%                For one wing
 -110%

Then just swap the -/+

Works well , I am getting loads of flap , not quite 90 deg but not a million miles away :)

Cheers Mike dead useful , Got a few thing left to do, but a lot closer to having the pred ready for flight , then its onto the Vec

Lee
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2010, 16:51:33 PM »
Lee, I would be a bit careful about maxing it out to 110%.  I don't think this will allow you any room for sub-trim adjustments. Well it will adjust, but you will loose throw as the endpoint won't go beyond 110% whatever you do.

Also on the evo there is a curve for offsets (something like "single sided with offset"). Although I don't remember it making much difference either way.

Anyway, best not go OT, but the things about the max throw might pertain to other radios as well.

Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 18:58:47 PM »
When you adjust the trim on the Evo9 it will only move the centre , I cant see any reason to need to trim the full throw on the flaps ? That just might be me being think but I can't see what you mean ??

Lee
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 19:15:11 PM »
If you need to move the centre you will not move the end point as you say. E.g If you move the centre 5points towards the down flap end point , you would have 5 points less travel on that servo.  End result is that that flap might move slightly less. 

Because your points then become:
+110
+65
-110


When I say not allow any room for subtrim, I was not quite right and meant in the one direction. However, If you have set your flaps servo up so that they point at the control horn on full crow deployment, you will see that the effect of extra servo horn rotation because less and less as the horn fully points at the control horn. Indeed if you went past a certain point the flap would actually start to retract again (imagine a a servo that rotated 360 degrees). For this reason it probably won't make any difference.  I'm just a geek........ :)


Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 10:48:43 AM »
Not to complain at all but

I have spent a good few hours trying to get the Flaps to work with the elevators ? , I have on all my models , setup so that the flaps only go up to assist ( another thread for that discussion ) I like it that way but with the pred setup as per the Easy Flap Install I cannot achieve up flap without having major flap movement when crow is deployed , Now I am fairly sure I am ok with MPX evo 9 programming , I would opt for a more standard fit out next time as I feel it works better for me ( My radio ) . Just my thoughts

Lee
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 10:51:54 AM »
it worked okay for me when I had an evo.

Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2010, 13:50:07 PM »
I set the servo's up as per instructions , and looked to gain the required movements , not more but what happens is

I setup so that I have flap assist on the normal setting and all is fine . same in thermal but when in crow , not deployed is fine but when I deploy the flaps the flaps on the up going side i.e. right side when turning right ( I think ) the flap goes all the way back up. So I looked at the programming again and sorted it out so they didn't go all the way back up but this results in very small flap assist in Normal thermal and when the crow is not deployed . I have spent ages trying to sort this to no avail.
Result is
Pulled servo's back out , changed the arms to 9/10mm instead of 7mm and also changed settings to 100% 30% -100%
This has now sorted the issues I was having .

All the above might just be me SO ignore it if you think I am wrong :)

Lee
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline Lee Morgan

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Air Commodore
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 1
  • Posts: 769
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • www.leemorganartworx.co.uk
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2010, 17:43:19 PM »
Right last attempt at putting across what I mean

When the flaps are down . putting in left or right ail would also bring the up going flap all the way up . so one would be all the way down and the other all the way up , this means steering whilst the flaps are down would be extreme to say the least .

Lee
Hanger : Tragi ,P38 lightning ,Fusion,Zagi,M60,AldiJ,Predator I,Vector III

Offline Yoyo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 7,411
  • Liked: 81
  • Country: gb
  • Wahey!!
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2010, 17:56:33 PM »
Right last attempt at putting across what I mean

When the flaps are down . putting in left or right ail would also bring the up going flap all the way up . so one would be all the way down and the other all the way up , this means steering whilst the flaps are down would be extreme to say the least .

If I may add my inexperienced point of view.. you don't want it doing that!

If I understand it correctly, if you use ailerons with the flaps down and the flaps are set to aid the ailerons, then the flaps should only move about the same amount as they normally would - so if the flaps only move up and down 4mm when the ailerons are used normally, they should only move up and down 4mm from their 'down' position (full travel and spoiler differential reduction etc. permitting.)

It does sound like your tx is ignoring the 'flaps down' setting when mixing aileron into the flaps, and moving them to an absolute position instead of a relative one.
Doing what you like is Freedom
Liking what you do is Happiness

Offline Zim

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 32
  • Posts: 6,625
  • Liked: 1
  • Country: gb
  • Foamy catching!
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 18:57:26 PM »
Lee - I NEVER have my flaps working as ailerons during crow. Regardless of your mechanical set-up the flaps will move far too much when deployed as crow if used as ailerons. You can't make a set-up which gets around this and in my opinion you certainly don't want to seriously compromise your flap gearing to work around that. The way around it simply that your flaps do not work as ailerons when crow is deployed. Otherwise they have a huge yaw effect as you describe and I find that this upsets the model badly during approach. The solution is to disable flaps as ailerons during the crow phase, not to compromise the geometry.

Mike - I'm pleased to tell you that legacy issues regarding RCRCM geometry do seem to be in the past. My Typhoon ailerons, recently completed, give fractionally more upgoing movement than down as a result of the geometry, and identical both sides. I have the servo arm canted slightly to the trailing edge per normal practice to assist this.

Zim

Offline satinet

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 5
  • -Receive: 74
  • Posts: 9,176
  • Liked: 55
  • Country: gb
  • Sat-in-bed
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 12:18:49 PM »
Lee,

what are you describing shouldn't happen. It didn't when I had my Evo.  In theory if you have say +-15 points as the value for the aileron input into the flap servos, the flaps should only move +-15 points regardless of where there centre (or offset is).  Unless of course the +-15 causes the servo to hit it's end point (which it will when the flap is fully down).

It seems to me like there is either a bug in the new Evo software (not entirely unlikely), or that you have some erroneous input or values in the flap servos.  As I say there is no logical reason for what you say to happen, assuming you have aileron and spoiler as inputs in to the flap servos and the value for aileron has not changed.

Tom

Offline BLADE1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Wing Commander
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 292
  • Liked: 10
  • Country: gb
Re: Easy Flap install
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2011, 17:06:32 PM »
If you can mount your servo arms so they point upwards,then your on a winner.The pushrod then runs along inside the top skin to the horn. At full flap, the servo horn points down the pushrod to the surface horn without load on the gears.This setup keeps the geometry very straight and eliminates the downward angle(from flap horn to servo horn) that normally occurs.Slop is virtually zero!
There is one point that i havnt mentioned,which is the wing has to be wide enough inside to accept the servo and the arm.My Thermic xxxl 5m is a perfect example of this method ive described.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 17:08:02 PM by BLADE1 »
bollox


 

BloQcs design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.2 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
TinyPortal © 2005-2012
Page created in 1.835 seconds with 72 queries.