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Author Topic: South East Flyers Part 1  (Read 518323 times)

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Offline simon_t

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #280 on: April 12, 2009, 21:45:32 PM »
No I was on the flat field at Cliffe, nr Gravesend.  I don't think the weather was as good down there, so mostly power flying.  Too little wind this holiday!  Good luck with whatever you have brewing up!

Simon


Offline tp2fly

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #281 on: April 12, 2009, 21:48:41 PM »
I've heard the hourly rate is somewhat lacking unless you can hit on something new. I suppose the last break through was EPP combat wings.
Mr Zagi was on to a good thing!
Fly it like you stole it!

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #282 on: April 12, 2009, 21:52:13 PM »
Good luck with whatever you have brewing up!

Simon

Thanks Simon
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures


Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #283 on: April 12, 2009, 21:54:29 PM »
Mr Zagi was on to a good thing!

Indeed, and the guy form Seattle that developed the DLG should have whacked a patent on it! I suppose that goes against the whole ethos of the pastime though.
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline N S E W

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #284 on: April 12, 2009, 22:19:03 PM »
This is my newest edition, it's not covered very well but I'm not expecting it to last very long being made of 3mm and 6mm Depron, and covered in Staples A3 Laminating Film, all up weight is 445g, if it dies quickly, at least I can eat it!!
If it ain't FOAM ---- I don't want it ! (Unless it's a Butler like Si's got !) or a Taboo DLG !


Offline Phil.Taylor

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #285 on: April 12, 2009, 22:35:36 PM »
last night I sketched a design for an 3m electric soarer that I'm going to be needing shortly,
er - Paul - that's got a TAIL ?
Phil
Out on the far cliffs

Offline tp2fly

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #286 on: April 12, 2009, 22:37:21 PM »
Thats cool N S E W . I like to see people designing and building their own creations.
Fly it like you stole it!


Offline N S E W

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #287 on: April 12, 2009, 22:41:09 PM »
Thats cool N S E W . I like to see people designing and building their own creations.


I WISH!!.....I am not clever enough to design any thing, these guys in Cornwall did that.

New fish on the block.... - RC Groups
If it ain't FOAM ---- I don't want it ! (Unless it's a Butler like Si's got !) or a Taboo DLG !

Offline peterbruce2002

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #288 on: April 13, 2009, 00:01:50 AM »
Crumbs - a model from scratch taking shape in 13 hours...
How do you learn to do that nowdays I wonder - reading books will not cut it.
I have tried tapping the older members in our club for info but it does not come easy which perhaps is why ARTF kits are mostly the norm now - shame as when they pile in the skill to repair them is missing (with me).
I can remember from my long (long long even longer) past youth something like the Aeromodeler plans service but you must have the knowledge in the first place so you can build them...

Not wishing to take up too much time but I wonder Paul is there some kind of "instinct" you have to do this from scratch or does "if it looks right it will be right" play any part...

Peter


Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #289 on: April 13, 2009, 08:15:52 AM »
er - Paul - that's got a TAIL ?
Phil

very good Phil ;D

I was waiting for that one! I'm thinking I may do a bit of x-country with it, and that requires a model you can see when it's 'up there'. Flying wings are very good at disappearing due to lack of fuz and tailplane :o

Have you flown anything with the Ritz sections? I've heard the original Alpina sported the same section I'm got here. I've not used them before, but I know a guy who did extensively on his OD models, and they all performed well.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 08:33:58 AM by paul w »
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #290 on: April 13, 2009, 08:29:25 AM »

How do you learn to do that nowdays I wonder

Not wishing to take up too much time but I wonder Paul is there some kind of "instinct" you have to do this from scratch or does "if it looks right it will be right" play any part...

Peter

I've always messed about with making stuff, had a lot of projects that fall by the wayside but I always learn something new with each model I have a go at. I've always got ideas boiling away that I'm itching to have a go at, I not sure I'll ever fully scratch the itch though.

I think if you're building a conventional layout, so long as it's straight and true, and structurally sound then 'that looks about right' works fine. Most models are built in the same manner, so just get a set of plans to copy the construction methods and change the outline or shape to please your eye.

If you're building stuff to fly off the slope it doesn't even have to be that efficient, the slope lift will mask a multitude of sins!

I don't draw up any plans, I just do a sketch (usually at about 1:10 scale) like the one I posted above, then print it off at full size, cut it out and use that as a template.
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline peterbruce2002

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #291 on: April 13, 2009, 10:14:37 AM »
Hi Paul.
Thanks for the info. After messing about with heli's where the plans / diagrammes are first class and then going over to planes I found the plans / instructions dismal to say the least.
Fuzzy photo copy instructions pictures in BW you cant see and all crammed onto an A4 sheet - they assume the builder has previous knowledge of construction. I made the old Weston Cougar before the instructions were updated due to a criticism in a magazine - and boy did they need it (with me).
I think a lot of the bad instructions come from the fact that the Chinese are fantastic at making the ARTF kits but English instructions are another matter.
My Ventus was a typical example - made you laugh before you started the build.
I am like all who enter the sport now I will have to gather the "knowledge" as I go.
Picture attached of my Ventus - converted to electric in case I get in trouble.
True "maiden flight" yet to come at Detling.

Look forward to seeing you model on the slope.

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #292 on: April 13, 2009, 10:25:31 AM »
Peter

I can imagine there being quite a gap between heli and fixed wing builds, I'd be happy to do a build thread with my next one if that's any use to you.

What's the electric setup in the Ventus?
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #293 on: April 13, 2009, 10:26:36 AM »

Look forward to seeing you model on the slope.


female swim wear is my speciality
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline peterbruce2002

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #294 on: April 13, 2009, 10:48:51 AM »
Ref Ventus.
Brushless motor and 35A controller out of old crashed Edge plane (Electric Flight I believe).
I did have quick flight at the field - the dam thing flew so fast I never got a chance to even trim it as it flew faster than any of my IC planes - slips through the air like the wings are coated in Teflon - gave me quite a shock it did.
Managed to do some damage on landing (now repaired) as I deployed the air brakes at about 6 foot off the deck - full up (Chinese instructions gave no clue) the glider seemed to hit a brick, fell out of the sky horizontally, collapsed my lovely bomb door opening folding glider wheel  and turned the wheel frames into little bits. The wheel is now fixed but stays down.
A few other small pictures are attached for info.

Ref the build link I am already following a few - its the questions they raise that's not so easy. One side is the covering and I am trying to "see it done" and have the feelers out at our club.

Offline Phil.Taylor

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #295 on: April 13, 2009, 15:27:20 PM »
Have you flown anything with the Ritz sections? I've heard the original Alpina sported the same section I'm got here.

IIRC my Kulbutin has a Ritz airfoil - not a big recommndation though!
If you're thinking Alpina - why not go later model Alpina with HQW airfoil?
HQ website link --> Profilsammlung
all in German, but you'll figure it out!
The HQW foils are designed for flaps - all seem to go well, the Falcon is(was?) HQW 1.5/8 - pretty thin - the Alpina is thicker, maybe HQW 3/10? (= camber/thickness)
Phil
Out on the far cliffs

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #296 on: April 13, 2009, 16:44:24 PM »
I did look at the HQW sections, but they go pretty thin at the trailing edge with a bit of an undercusp. I could foresee it being a bit tricky to get right, so just went for the Ritz as it's a lot chunkier at the back end, I can stomach a few percent extra drag on the basis I'll get it done a lot quicker.
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline GP

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #297 on: April 13, 2009, 18:04:18 PM »
On the spur of the moment I flew at Colley Hill this afternoon with my lightweight foamy Telink Multifun.  The wind was only 4mph, but the Multifun was good...er...fun.  I might get into this 'cruising around sniffing out lift' lark. 

No one else was there except one guy who turned up at the end, watched the Multifun going well, and optimistically threw up his SAS Wildthing.  Huh - no chance!  That thing flopped to the ground like a caught fish onto a trawler deck.





slopehunter.co.uk

Offline DelUK

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #298 on: April 13, 2009, 18:08:55 PM »
you should give the lighter days more of a go Gary, they can be just as satisfying. Once you have the height you can still do all the hooligan stuff on the way down !

Offline GP

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #299 on: April 13, 2009, 19:20:01 PM »
I'm getting into the delicate stuff as well, honest ... I'm building a Blaster 2 DLG at the moment, it doesn't come much more delicate than that.

Paul, the typical sort of glider powertrain you might consider would be something like a 3S 2200 lipo (eg Loong Max 2250 25-35C, 22.16 from giantcod) a 40A speed controller (eg HobbyWing 40A Pentium speed controller, 21.67 from giantcod) and a brushless motor narrow enough to fit in your glider nose and with quite a low kv (all sorts of possibilities - if you want to spend, a beauty is a MVVS 3.5/960, 59.99 from puffinmodels - or something cheap from giantcod will work well but won't sound quite as quiet and smooth.)  Or you could go lighter if you're not interested in speed.  Or you could go heavier if you want a real hotliner - but this recommended setup is already powerful.

Those cheap lipos and Hobbywing speed controllers from giantcod are totally top quality despite the price, the switching BEC in the speed controller is superb and can power six servos no problem, unlike many speed controllers.  I like a really quiet smooth motor, which is why I buy something more expensive like MVVS.  (Although for that EPP flying eagle you saw, I just used a 15 giantcod motor, and it was fine.)  If you prefer to buy a top-end lipo and speed controller, I suggest a Jeti Spin controller from puffin (it needs to be a Spin to match the performance of the HobbyWing, but it's something like 4 times the price) and a Thunder Power ProLite 2 lipo (which is a fraction lighter than a Loong Max lipo but not better in any other way, despite costing twice the price).

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, I just wasn't sure whether you were up on nasty powered stuff ...
slopehunter.co.uk

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #300 on: April 13, 2009, 19:40:53 PM »
That's helpful stuff Gary, I've got a couple of 3 cell 2450mah lipos, a 30amp controller and a 950kv outrunner (happy at 16amps) kicking about that I've yet to use.

I'm guessing the motor won't be up to the job? this new fangled get-up is a bit beyond me, just give me back my Speed 600 and Tamiya 7 cell hump pack!

I don't want any more than a positive 30deg climb out. I'm guessing the AUW weight will be somewhere around 35oz, but this could creep up to 40ish as I fear it may be tail heavy.

Any further advice warmly welcomed.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 19:46:43 PM by paul w »
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline GP

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #301 on: April 13, 2009, 19:52:01 PM »
Actually that would probably be enough if your plane really ends up being only 1.1kg or so.  It's surprising how little you need with a low-drag glider.  I'm usually using mine at half throttle, which is actually less than half the max amps, probably around 15A.  My guess is that yours would do 30 degrees, just not 60 degrees.  Also, a 16A motor can withstand brief bursts at say 20A.  I suggest if you have a meter, fit what you've got with say a 12 x 6 or 14 x 7 Graupner cam folding prop or similar, measure it, and if it maxes at about 20A static, that will be about 18A max in the air, which would be good.

slopehunter.co.uk

Offline DelUK

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #302 on: April 13, 2009, 19:54:49 PM »
you are welcome to borrow my watt meter which is pretty invaluable to show the effect of trying different prop diameters and pitches. You don't want to cook the motor, speed control or battery. If it's a full house 6 servo glider you may want to consider a seperate motor battery and rx/servo batt pack.

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #303 on: April 13, 2009, 20:01:02 PM »
Good news all round then!

Gary those numbers sound good, if I can keep a handle on the weight it should be a go-er. I used spruce longerons right the way back to the fin, I might strip these out as I think they're adding a hell of a lot of weight back there.

Deryck, yes I was going to chuck in a seperate battery for the receiver, like I said I think I'll need the nose weight. If it all ends up a bit too pedestrian I'll cough up for a beafier motor, afterall they're pretty cheap these days! Cheers for the watt meter offer, that'll be handy. maybe we can run it on the hill when it's done.
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline DelUK

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #304 on: April 13, 2009, 20:08:29 PM »
I would recommend using the Deans connectors for the heavy current side of things. A lot of the cheap far eastern batts and speed controllers have these fitted as standard. Minimise the soldering, that's what I say !

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #305 on: April 13, 2009, 20:13:41 PM »
I like the sound of that, gone are the days of dicking about with those MASSIVE Tamiya plugs.

Right, spars are glued in with 5 min epoxy, I'm hoping to get one wing skinned and pressed tonight. I haven't gone overboard on the spars, I'm hoping to get a little bit of flex round a loop. If they're too bendy bendy once they're skinned, I'll have to finish them in light weight glass cloth but would rather not from a work and weight point of view.

Right, time to crank up the lean mean grilling machine and open a bottle of wine while the epoxy goes off properly.
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline N S E W

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #306 on: April 14, 2009, 09:23:06 AM »
Paul I have this motor esc combo, new in packets, they are no use to me, if you want the combo they are yours for 12.

Paul will have first shout, if he doesn't want them, then any one who can collect from Thurnham is more than welcome.

It does come with mount, spinner etc. and are reported to be very good.

I am having a problem copy pasting the link to the items?



« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 09:34:48 AM by N S E W »
If it ain't FOAM ---- I don't want it ! (Unless it's a Butler like Si's got !) or a Taboo DLG !

Offline Allen the soarer

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #307 on: April 14, 2009, 09:43:49 AM »
All I'm Saying is OMG gust of 40mph at beachy head on monday (how wrong was the forgast!!)

you dont get high winds on a south very often

GIANT LIFT AND SO SMOOOOOOOTH

Don't buy something new
When you can hack something old

Offline DelUK

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #308 on: April 14, 2009, 09:50:13 AM »
I have only experienced that super smooth mega lift at 2 sites: one is at Beachy, the other was St. Agnes in Cornwall. Nothing like it for aeros and high energy stuff....

Offline Ollie B

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #309 on: April 14, 2009, 09:51:39 AM »
After arriving at Thurnham yesterday only to find the wind was infact comming from behind the slope we decided to make our way over to Minster.  There was hardly any wind and it was not quite square on the slope but we had a really enjoyable time just flying floaters which would just about stay up.  Although it sounds as though we should have been at Beachy Head, 40mph :o.  

Offline J.smack

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #310 on: April 14, 2009, 09:52:09 AM »
Hello all. Just joined the forum. think i know most of you. im the one with the wildthing and the pony tail, usually found lurking at thurnham.

so ner!
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Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #311 on: April 14, 2009, 09:54:41 AM »
Paul I have this motor esc combo, new in packets, they are no use to me, if you want the combo they are yours for 12.

Paul will have first shout, if he doesn't want them, then any one who can collect from Thurnham is more than welcome.

It does come with mount, spinner etc. and are reported to be very good.

I am having a problem copy pasting the link to the items?






Rob

thanks for the offer but I'm going to err on the side of caution until I know for sure what the AUW is, so if there's any other takers then get stuck in there!
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #312 on: April 14, 2009, 09:57:58 AM »
After arriving at Thurnham yesterday only to find the wind was infact comming from behind the slope we decided to make our way over to Minster.  There was hardly any wind and it was not quite square on the slope but we had a really enjoyable time just flying floaters which would just about stay up.  Although it sounds as though we should have been at Beachy Head, 40mph :o.  

well it's good to hear someone got some flying time in
Goodwind Slope Soaring     blogtastic hill side adventures

Offline J.smack

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #313 on: April 14, 2009, 10:04:38 AM »
i'll giva ya a quid for em Rob! :nananana:
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Offline Ollie B

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #314 on: April 14, 2009, 10:10:18 AM »
well it's good to hear someone got some flying time in

I didn't end up in any trees this time either ;D

Ollie

Offline J.smack

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #315 on: April 14, 2009, 10:11:57 AM »
i take it you got your Zagi back the other day at Holly hill ollie? did the giant stick come in handy again? :af
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Offline Ollie B

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #316 on: April 14, 2009, 10:27:17 AM »
Yep, got the Zaggi back, it was a lot easier than the Stargazer :embarassed:.  I think the big stick may be an essential piece of kit, every slope soar er should have one.

Ollie

Offline paul w

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #317 on: April 14, 2009, 11:23:04 AM »
I keep meaning to get some conduit from B&Q and make up a collapsable rod, I also hear that roch poles are good for the job
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Offline DelUK

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #318 on: April 14, 2009, 12:27:26 PM »
Hello all. Just joined the forum. think i know most of you. im the one with the wildthing and the pony tail, usually found lurking at thurnham.

so ner!

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Re: South East Flyers
« Reply #319 on: April 14, 2009, 21:44:56 PM »
Thursday is East 14mph, can someone tell me if it would be best at Holly Hill, Minster or neither.....Cheers Rob
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