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D80 to D100 metamorphosis

Started by wdeighton, December 28, 2010, 17:37:53 pm

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wdeighton

Nice scuff on the rock


Fuse actually penetrated through a big mound of earth and out the other side





wdeighton

December 28, 2010, 17:58:30 pm #1 Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 18:18:26 pm by wdeighton
So the plan is to cut the wings through the flap servo opening, fix and create a centre section.
Tim has offered to help by cutting the foam cores.
But there are allot of challenges ahead.
The LHS wing will take some repairing too.
Found these to use for sparing. will ask the lads at work for some solid steal joiners to suit.

The wing will be cut in 4 pieces. 250mm wide inner sections, parallel cord of about 209mm, and the outer panel is 294mm with the cord tapering down to 201.5mm. this angel seems to match the existing wing quite well.

Quite excited about this project. Hope it works well.

deckit

Very ambitious Will, but hoping it works out well :af

gromit

Good to see that someones going to tackle the repair. Look forward to hearing of your progress Will  :af.
I reckon you've just taken the task on though, to get out of your "Nappy duty's" ;)

  Stuart.

wdeighton

spent the morning looking at sparing and decided that 1 by 1/2 was to small.
my search lead me to 1 1/2 x 3/4 which just fits in
http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=13&prd_id=7430
I am also asking for some 8mm holes to locate the cores.
[smg id=25990]

the rear box is a servo representation as you can see I will need to clear the spar to fit it in.

hobster

Watching with much interest Will  :af
You'll have a D40, D60, D80 & D100 to choose between- Joe Manor will be envious!

Have you separated the wing in two yet?

wdeighton

Quote from: hobster on December 29, 2010, 11:28:06 am

Have you separated the wing in two yet?


Adam did this to help for transport.
I am quite tempted to cut them to size, but am a but apprehensive. I think I want the top surface to be flat to give a touch of dihedral, But not yet found an accurate way to create the line. At the moment I have a line which should give me a straight wing (Equal taper top and bottom), may just play it safe and leave extra material and then use and angled block to set it.

wdeighton

Hmm anybody live in the pontyfract area that f3f's or ds's?

Postage £12. maybe i am just being a bit petty

Or other supplies of ali extrusion?

I am also concerned that the wall section is only 1.5mm, so thinking of getting 2 pieces of 3/4 and putting them side by side.
this also comes in a 3mm wall section. This would give a total of 12mm vertical steel, and not 3mm.
But that means the joiner will have to be smaller. thinking of solid steel joiners, so it may not be an issue.
2 off 13mm. If I need I can go hi carbon tool steel, but getting it hard will not be as easy as when I worked in the tool room.

hobster

What dimensions of steel joiner are you thinking of using Will?

wdeighton

If I go 2 off 3/4" side by side, it will be 2 13mm square joiners.

I may be able to get a third joiner in behind.

Or
What if I cut out one of the walls the length of the joiner, and then wrap carbon tows around to join them back together.
It will still be stronger than the 1 1/2" x 3/4 with 1.5mm wall section.

I will probably waist a whole load of money again buy buying both, and having a bit of a play, decide the neither are the best solution so I will purchase something else.

Its hard to conceive exactly how much force they will need to withstand. The spar caps should take care of some of the stress, I think the problem with this spar is to stop the joiner ripping it in 2. It may only take some tows wrapped around it to make it strong enough.

Need to have chat to the cae lads at work.

hobster

With a 20" (or thereabouts) centre panel, presumably you are looking for the joiner to go all the way through the centre panel and extend say 10" into each outer wing panel. But that means a 1m wing joiner. Starts to get heavy when using steel - about 2.7kg for 2 x 13mm square..

What about carbon - e.g. a couple of these. 

http://www.woolmer.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_96

or 2 x12mm carbon rod and 16OD/12ID glass tube. FWIW the 12mm carbon rod is about the only thing left intact on my repaired mct :(

Adam Richardson

Hobster. I recon his center pannel will be more like 50 to 60 inch long.

   
Yum Yum, These Korean meat balls really are the dogs bollox.

hobster

Quote from: adam_lambretta on December 29, 2010, 19:13:13 pm
Hobster. I recon his center pannel will be more like 50 to 60 inch long.    


so 30" - 40" binned??  :o

wdeighton

The centre section is 1088mm.(42.8") This is to give me a 100" span, and the existing wings cut through the flap servo.
Which kind of sucks because it means I cannot buy 1m lengths, I have to buy 2m and cut them down. Which is not all bad, as it gives me a single spar, and the off cuts can go into the wing tips.

I have contacted Tim and said not to worry about the main spar for now. I will make a plan once I know what I am doing and where it is going to go, He is just going to put the locators in for now.

there just seems to be a slight discrepancy between the wing and the section, So I am going to go upinto the loft now that the boy is asleep, and measure it for a second time.

wdeighton

collecting the cores tomorrow.
Pictures to follow soon.

muchalucha

A really cool project, watching with interest  :).

the.Timinator

I. on the other hand, am watching with some trepidation and fear...

What Will asked for was a bit unusual, presented several difficulties, not all of which were resolved as well as either of us might have liked  :xx

Suffice it to say that what seemed relatively simple here in the cybberworkshop did not go so well in the flame pits of Mordor...

As I have taken to referring to my garage  :''

But I really hopes this goes well, never seen anyone take this approach before.

Onwards and downwards!

Tim
Ah HAH! Thats how you do it!

thermaled

Quote from: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 20:49:34 pm


there just seems to be a slight discrepancy between the wing and the section, So I am going to go upinto the loft now that the boy is asleep, and measure it for a second time.


Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark

wdeighton

Quote from: thermaled on January 03, 2011, 00:06:48 am
Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark


Hello Mark.
I have read the same thing, but as I am cutting the wing at the flap servo box, I think the section is JM26 here. I have mailed Joe in the past and never received a response, Maybe the address I have is incorrect, but that is why I have not consulted him on this. i hope he will pop in one day and give his very valuable 2p.

With regards the main post, I think the problem was the way I was measuring the wing so I did my best to cut the wing as accurately as possible and then re-measured and came up with a dimension within .1mm of what tim had measured so I felt brave enough to give the go ahead and cut the cores.

So I picked up the cores today and am quite happy with what I have.
Tim has cut me 2 sets. One set is cut to the section, and the other with 1.5mm panel thickness. The point of this is when I add my layup to the smaller cores they should fit perfectly in the larger beds. Maybe a good Idea, Maybe not?  :xx

[smg id=26017]

[smg id=26019]

Thanks for your help Tim.

Anybody got a copy of the Phil Barns DVD? I have been advised to watch it buy a number of people, but nobody seems to be able to find their copies. (Maybe they don't trust me)

Will

Zim

Quote from: thermaled on January 03, 2011, 00:06:48 am
Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark


You're quite right. I think Will's choice of words is sometimes hmmmm  ::) as the sentence he posted saying that there seems to be a "slight descrepancy between the wing and the section" seem to imply that Joe got his own model wrong - which I'm SURE that Will definitely didn't mean LOL!!  :D

Bed idea sound interesting Will. Just don't do the layup on the wrong set!!

Z

wdeighton

Quote from: Zim on January 03, 2011, 08:52:19 am
You're quite right. I think Will's choice of words is sometimes hmmmm  ::) as the sentence he posted saying that there seems to be a "slight descrepancy between the wing and the section" seem to imply that Joe got his own model wrong - which I'm SURE that Will definitely didn't mean LOL!!  :D

Bed idea sound interesting Will. Just don't do the layup on the wrong set!!

Z


quite right, I was not trying to imply that Joe was using the wrong section, but we where trying to ensure the thickness we where using is correct.

beds marked up as bed or cores as cores, so hopefully no mistakes.

Will

Zim

Good - given that it is the largest and most obvious possible DOH! moment on this project, it is likely to have its own gravitational field.

Z

pike pro

Hi will
Hows the beast coming on ? :)

wdeighton

Spar ordered This morning
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aluminium-Rectangle-Tube-1-1-2-x-3-4-x-16g-1995mm-/270658168645?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f047be745

The strength of these seem very good. We worked on a half beam with 5000N and it was causing the ali to open by 0.2mm So I think it will be fine.
I will how ever be doing a test and one of the off cuts by clamping them in a vice and putting as much torque on it as possible (Might need some big people to help)

As soon as these comes in I will have to have a work with a friend about some steel joiners. Hmmmm. I was thinking of making a set of carbons too?

wdeighton

Progress. Yes, but not all the the right direction.
The Spars have arrived. 2 lengths of just under 2m.
I also picked up the material for the spars today, 600mm of 1 1/2" x 3/4" cold rolled mild steel. But this now needs machining down. I am a bit concerned that it needs to be done correctly so as it doesn't bow.

With regards the wing, well not much has happened, but done some more thinking.
And the latest thinking is to use the larger cores. But just do a thin layup, and then splash it. The reason for the change, well accurately. The other option (Same beds but cores cut to give a 1.5mm gap to the beds) I think will be difficult to get as accurate.

hobster

Hey Will, how's the metamorphosis progressing? Any new photies?

wdeighton

Well not too bad, but wery little done to the d100.
Cleared one of the small jobs that I wanted to get out of the way. (Another one to go)
Also finishing off some Bathroom DIY that needs doing. (Slowly we are getting there)
And I ave made a start on the repairs to the Donor Wings.

to be honest, I still cant decide weather to go one hit thick layup vac bagged method, Or light lay up vac bag mould and make a proper job.
The second option in my mind will leave me with the most accurate wing, and posibily the stronger of the 2 solutions. But will need a mould making.
the making a mould part is not the end of the world, as I need / want more practice, But I wanted this bird flying by the summer, and it ain't gona be at this rate.

wdeighton

Thanks to hobster I think I have found a flap servo.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14910

There will be half of the existing flap on the donor wings, And well I will need more so will put another on the new wing.
Dont think 24lg servers will be needed, but these should be a good compromise.

But anybody know where I can get some ali horns that will fit? (MKS Spline)

satinet

Will, I think they are futaba compatible on MKS's larger servos.

I bet it's comforting to know that your servos are water proof!  :o

wdeighton

Well I have a bit of an update

I now have the aluminium spars and Solid steel joiners (They are heavy 1 1/2" x 3/4" solid mild steel).
I am getting closer to getting the tips sorted.
I decided to go the mould route, and started bagging the centre panel this evening.
I had a plan to bag each panel separately, so everything would be linear, this way I could use a single mylar and piece of cloth going all round the leading edge. Doesn't work.
But I started this way and now need to finish this way. So the centre section is in the bag. And maybe tomorrow I will get the  tips in the bag.
The current layup is 25g glass, then 200g glass. just enough to make the mould.

wdeighton

Pulled the center section out of the bag this evening.
Left it 48 hours to ensure curing in my cold loft.
Added some heating to try bring the temprature up.
:) ;) ;D
For my fist bagging attempt, I am quite happy.
Hope to get the tip panels done during the week, and joining by the next. :xx

Progress feels good. :af

deckit


wdeighton

more good progress
If things go well tomorrow, I may get to join the wings. But I may decide to visit someone who has a long bow to cut some holes for the spar.

So Been thinking about servos. And searching the www to find these

http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=SC1256TG&area=Servo
20 KG, Why not? £54 I guess the question is do they come with a metal arm.

Also if anybody has a Sanwa SDX762 to flog, let me know how much you are after. alternatively where get I get one from in the uk?

Thinking the about the MKS 10 kg servo, Well I don't think I am any more. I was when i was going to run 6 servos in the wing, But now I am going to run 4, So thinking it will need to be stronger. If I could find a good 15Kg servo for a decent price I may be quit tempted.
There are a couple of other hitec that are in the running but not programmable. (Hitec HSC 5997TG is 13KG, Hitec HS 5998TG is 18kg and both only £57 )its only £10 but that's £40 at the end of the day) that savox at the top is looking even better now.

wdeighton

can some one remind me if we can get metal arms for these savox Servos?

Adam Richardson

Go for the Savox that I had in my JW will. They are awsome. I have a nice new sanwa 762 I could sell you too mate.
Yum Yum, These Korean meat balls really are the dogs bollox.

clayts75

Quote from: wdeighton on March 05, 2011, 22:09:21 pm
can some one remind me if we can get metal arms for these savox Servos?

Aren't the bigger Savox servos compatible with futaba arms? Or am I remembering wrong $%&

wdeighton

March 15, 2011, 20:11:43 pm #36 Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 20:16:18 pm by wdeighton
Not as good as Joe' and his D130 build long, But you goto start some where.

update.
After nearly being finished, I decided to scrap the other cores. They where too small and would take too many layers they would not be very accurate at all.

So a week ago I contacted my friendly Northern Foam cutting friend and asked him to cut me a new set of cores where the core was already the correct size (on compensation for glass, wood or any other thickness). May layup (200glass) is only 0.2mm thickness and I figure I will lose that in the bag. His turn around was fantastic and I collect the new cores on Saturday From Rushup Edge.
[smg id=26332]

I promptly started gluing them together, and by Sunday evening I had the cores ready to bag, All the cloth cut, Mylars ready and a New Bag.

[smg id=26334]
[smg id=26333]

Last night was when it got all exciting. Got the kids to bed and up I went until 11:30 pm when the wife started to winge. (Fair dues the floor of the loft squeaks allot.
[smg id=26336]
Cloth wet out on Mylar
[smg id=26337]
In the bag slowly sucking to avoid wrinkles.
[smg id=26338]
Full Vacuum (20 to 22" mercury)
[smg id=26321]
Ready to open the bag this evening
[smg id=26323]
Its a boy
[smg id=26325][smg id=26326]
Offering up the donor wings.
[smg id=26330]
[smg id=26331]

And for the rest of the day I will be happy.

Not 100% 1 domed in dump, but very little filling and primer and the exterior will be there.

To Do List
Cut to Length. and tidy leading edge and trailing edge.
Add spar.
Assemble to tips and blend if / where required.
Prime and sand to a mirror finish
Wax
and make the mould.

could be ready to mould within the next 2 weeks. (That would make me happy. But realistic will probably take much longer.) Lets strike while the iron is hot. and shut up before I a make too much of a t1t out of my self

Rooster-X

Cool, can't wait to see it on the slopes soon  :af

Tom
Wasabi - Artist F3F - Vega - M60 - Blizzard - Guppy - Zaggi - Vector 3 - Jepe F22 - Extra 260 - Gemini - Tucano - Sniper

the.Timinator

Quote from: wdeighton on March 15, 2011, 20:11:43 pm

To Do List
Cut to Length. and tidy leading edge and trailing edge.
Add spar.
Assemble to tips and blend if / where required.
Prime and sand to a mirror finish
Wax
and make the mould.




Hi Will

looking really good mate.

1 question though - if you are going to take a mould off this, do you really need to add a spar?

Tim
Ah HAH! Thats how you do it!

gromit

Impressive work Will  :af

  Stuart.