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D80 to D100 metamorphosis

Started by wdeighton, December 28, 2010, 17:37:53 pm

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wdeighton

Quote from: the.Timinator on March 17, 2011, 19:44:13 pm
Hi Will

looking really good mate.

1 question though - if you are going to take a mould off this, do you really need to add a spar?

Tim


I hear you Tim. But How will I get the spar in the correct place in the mould? And how many scraps will be made in the process?
I can cut my hole slightly oversize (But as close as posible) and tune it to the tip panel to be sure it is perfect.
Then when I pull the mould I will put the joiners in the wings and mould around them.
This means I can use the joiners to line the spar up in the mould and be sure it is spot on in the correct place.

Like Joe has done.here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17593105&postcount=137

Although I may only pull a hand full at best, this is again a test bed to learn and practice. The next moulds I make I hope to make production standard and hopefully Sell some models to you lads. Already have the design, and plugs (well need to collect them). thinking of a 1 piece wing and a 3 piece wing for travel. We will see how it goes. Still need to learn more, And prove I can do it to my self.

Will

P.S. Thanx Stuart

Joe Manor

Are you putting a spar in that bagged plug? If so, I might be able to help with another option.

wdeighton

Quote from: Joe Manor on March 21, 2011, 14:14:31 pm
Are you putting a spar in that bagged plug? If so, I might be able to help with another option.

That was the plan.
But as soon as I started it soon became clear that it would not be easy.
So I damaged my core a bit. And stopped for a rethink.
I am now thinking of ways to do it in the mould and am very open to advice.
At the moment I am continuing to smooth the cores down, remove all the dents I have put in by pushing too hard, and from trying to spar it.
Then I will back to the sparing plan. but I am thinking of splashing, and then litrally cutting them into the mould. May not be easy to get accurate so Yes Joe, what you got for me?

Joe Manor

I would take my joiner boxes and glue them into the tip panels. Use the joiners to help keep everything aligned. Then, sand up i/2 the length of a joiner. Clear out the foam in the plug so you can glue it in. Make some slots in the foam so the glue can tie into the skin of the plug. Slide the smooth side of the sanded joiner into the tip panel and add some wax to so no epoxy can seep in between the joiner and the box and wrap some clear tape around the root of the tip so nothing can stick to it. Then brush a bunch of thickened epoxy into the hollowed out area of the center section. You will need enough glue so you get some squeeze out once you slide the joiner in. Wet out the sanded end of the joiner with the thickened epoxy as well. Then mate the tip panel to the center and mock up on the bench so all your angles are spot on. Once the glue cures the joiner will be permanently glued into the center panel at the proper angle. Then slide off the tip and you good to go. You can use this same method later to get all your pins aligned. If need be, you can make a couple of ribs with the joiner and pin holes milled out and slide in some pins and a joiner keeping the ribs a few inches apart. This will give you a jig with proper alignment. Glue it up and use it to set your pins in the tip panels first then use the first method to transfer the locations to the center section. Hope that didnt sound too complicated. The first method I use 5min epoxy. It is a 10 minute process once your tips are outfitted with the boxes.

Hot Air

This is a great project Will, thanks for sharing it with us. Advice from the master too, very cool  :af I hope it ends up as you wish, Steve
He who dies with the most toys wins

gromit

Its gone a bit Quiet on this build for a while Will, any updates or is it on hold at the mo  $%&

  Stuart.

wdeighton

Yes.
hope to make a mould for the joiner this weekend.
Trying a new filler caller poraver. makes much lighter moulds with less resin and just as strong as sand. But much easier to work with.

Wing is nearly there from a smoothness point. I cut it to length last week and faced the sides off 2 nights ago. but needs another layer of glass as it seems a bit too week.

I think I have a method to put index pins and joiner / spar details in.

The clock is ticking as the opti mould tooling resin arrived today, and has a 6 week shelf life, so within the next 3 weeks I will have to have it splashed. I have all the ingrediance to do the lay up (200g carbon, 400g carbon, lots of tows 1.5kg resin, kevlar, peel ply, release film, lanor core mat.) Could have a wing before the end of summer.

At the moment i am planing on just using my d80 fuz. if its good i will start fixing the broken fuz and stab.

Will try take some pics.

gromit

Good to hear that its still coming along nicely Will  :)
Look forward to hearing more & seeing a few pics :co
Keep it up Will :af

  Stuart.

wdeighton

Did a bit more last night.

Think I finally have a picture in my head of how I will get the sparing / ends to work.
I have cut the holes into the sides, and plan to glass them tonight with a wing joiner, and 2 index pins that will be held in position by 2 templates 20mm apart. Will see if I can get some pics tonight. def more to show at the mo.

wdeighton

pictures as promised
This is the wing mid smoothing, just after a coat of primer to see how it looked. more work required.
[smg id=26491]
[smg id=26492]
couldn't resit, the light'i up mam tor holding the d40.
[smg id=26493]
Wing faced and gluing in the joiner. It has been waxed, and just popes out. I will make a small joiner to put in for when I splash, and this will be used to position the spar when closing.
[smg id=26494]
Half a wing joiner mould.
[smg id=26495]
Was hoping to finish it this weekend but as light'i is turning 2 on Sunday, there will be no time.

Will try be a bit better at taking pics, hoping to do allot over the next couple of months, just need to remember the camera.

Will

gromit

Thanks for posting the pics Will  :af  Look forward to seeing & reading more soon please  :xx

  Stuart.

wdeighton

more about this later. in the mean time some pics.

[smg id=26666]

[smg id=26664]

the sections where taken of off the tips.
the left one looks good, but the right one looks a bit wrong on the trailing edge. about 1.5mm at the trailing edge.

wdeighton

So as can be told from my trail I had a good night in the loft last night.
I stopped this for a bit to get some more motivation. it seemed like a lot of work and no results. so I have been playing with some carbon, building some wings and got a feeling of completion.

But

The thing that really got me down was when I noticed my cores where not perfect. 1 is good, and the other not.
I cant check the centre that accurately without cutting it, so will hope for the best with that. and now look to the future. I have 3 ideas in mind.
1 as it is pretty much linear, I could try sand it back to section.
2 I could cut one of the skins, bend it correct, and then re-glass.
3 I could get new cores cut and start again (Its always quicker the third time)
4 or I could just leave it and trim it correct.

None of these really seem like the best thing to do, What happened to Tony fu????? He would know what to do.

So for now I will think about it some more, maybe speak to others to get some perspective, and then get stuck in and Finnish this project.

wdeighton

Well at long last I have managed to get going with this. Or I will decide to stop.

I have started to flat it back some more, done a repair to the trailing edge where it got knocked, and well it needs some more filling and sanding.

lets see how this goes

wdeighton

A quick update
the wing is pretty smooth, and I have started to add the faring in the centre to blend the wing in with the d80 fuz.

Today I started cutting the parting boards, Ordered 5kd of epoxy resin, 8m of glass cloth (45g, 150g, 200g, and 360g).

My Aluminium poweder arrived today, and I expect my graphite powder to arrive soon. these are both for experimentation. They will be added to epoxy resin with some cabosil to form a gel coat.

Note to self, take more photos. I really have no excuse as I have a decent camera phone.

wdeighton

[smg id=27114]
Setting up the Fuz Jig and testing with the D80 Win

[smg id=27115]
D100 Center section, with the faring sitting on top

This is now glued on, look forward to opening the hot box this evening and it being correct, and not sticking.

Will

hobster

Good to see you keeping the D100 project - and this DS glider forum - going!

deckit

This is going to be one interesting plane.

Hope it progresses smoothly, Will  :)

hobster

Hey Will done any more on this recently?

wdeighton

As always this project is a roller coaster.

But it is progressing. I have been spending allot of time working on the fit between the fuz and the wing. And my biggest problem is me. Sometimes I know I should do / re do something, but I don't.Then I leave the project for a while, come back, and decided to re do, as it should have been in the first place.

The wing seat to the Fuz is good. But the original work I did to blend the top in has been allot of work, and still is. when that is done we are basically ready to splash. i have even started on the parting boards, but decided to stop until I have the wing done. I was hoping to have the mould done by now.

I will upload some pictures when I have somthing good to look at.

Will

wdeighton

September 02, 2012, 22:19:35 pm #60 Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 22:23:31 pm by wdeighton
Did a bit more today and took some pictures to show progress.

To start with, an issue I noticed a while back, There seemed to be an aid bubble under the wing. about 30mm in diameter. I decided last night that it was time for this to be resolved. I punctured it with a scalpel, mixed up some thin resin and injected it in. Taped it up, and gave it a little pressure. Today I pulled of the tape, and sanded it back down. I then mixed up some micro balloons and epoxy as a filler and left it to dry.
[smg id=27206]

[smg id=27218]

The shape to the body is coming together quite well now. Just a couple of pin holes to fix.

[smg id=27207]

[smg id=27208]

[smg id=27216]

[smg id=27219]

On the one wing panel I noticed a little dent. So again last night I filled it, and today sanded it back.

[smg id=27210]

Back in the loft this week. If I work hard I may be able to get it ready for moulding.

deckit

So much work, Will, but must be good to have that centre section almost ready to splash. :af


wdeighton

Got Some inspiration and have been doing bits and bobs on this project again.
Had some issues with de-lamination between the foam and the glass, So I have now vented the wing by drilling holes in the sides. I opened the incidence pegs, and the spar hole also has a holed drilled as deep as possible.

I have also progressed the parting board.

The following pictures show the wing in the board.

[smg id=27306]

[smg id=27307]

I then Glassed it to try make it more stable. I found it had a bent to it that was distorting the wing a touch.

[smg id=27309]

And this with the board clamped to hold it down.

[smg id=27308]

The above picture also shows my flexible hot box. I can work on something and then just cover it up with bubble wrap to warm it up. or leave the lid on and put it under.

Hope to do more when my epoxy rash goes down.

Will

wdeighton


deckit

Good to see you progressing again, Will.

(And it would be good to see you at BC later this morning, a few of us will be there).

wdeighton

Quote from: wdeighton on January 18, 2013, 17:52:00 pm
Got Some inspiration and have been doing bits and bobs on this project again.
Had some issues with de-lamination between the foam and the glass, So I have now vented the wing by drilling holes in the sides. I opened the incidence pegs, and the spar hole also has a holed drilled as deep as possible.

I have also progressed the parting board.

The following pictures show the wing in the board.

[smg id=27306]

[smg id=27307]

I then Glassed it to try make it more stable. I found it had a bent to it that was distorting the wing a touch.

[smg id=27309]

And this with the board clamped to hold it down.

[smg id=27308]

The above picture also shows my flexible hot box. I can work on something and then just cover it up with bubble wrap to warm it up. or leave the lid on and put it under.

Hope to do more when my epoxy rash goes down.

Will



This parting board didn't work.
Being fabricated (To be cheaper) it was impossible to get flat. The more I tried the worse it was. So I chopped it in 2 and put it in the bin!
The next parting board was 5mm fiber board. The Idea is I wanted something that would conform to the wing, and not deform it. And I think it worked quite well.

The lay up for the mold so far was 25g, then 2 x 100g, 2 x 300g and then 4x 600g choped strand (not so nice to work with) it drank 1.5kg of resin in total. gel coat was 100g resin with 10g aluminium powder and then enough cabosil to thicken it up.

Went up to monitor the temperature (30°) and found an off cut of the parting board that had some resin soaked in, made me a bit nervous. Will the parting board come off? we will see tomorrow if no flying alternatively Monday. I did cover the fiber board with pva release agent. very wet and 3 coats. but I never put any R5 spray wax on it.

Here is a bad picture of the mould in the hot box

[smg id=27491]

hobster

Hi Will, Good to see you're making some more progress on this project. Did you do any more today - or decide to go flying?

wdeighton

Went flying. Baslow good day.
there was some air show in the area and alot of people had gone to curbar / baslow ridge to watch. As i arrived they where all leaving, but that did mean a fair wait to get to the car park.

wdeighton

Out the parting boards
Had some sticking problems, so stuck it in the bath to soften the mdf and the got it off in 100 000 000 pieces.
[smg id=27504]

[smg id=27507]

[smg id=27508]
Tong to fit a d80 fuz

[smg id=27509]
Leading Edge. Needs a clean up

[smg id=27510]
Trailing edge with wax to create a trough.
More wax will be added to create another trough on the side still to be moulded.
The Ideas is excess resin and cloth can go in there ans still give a nice tight trailing edge.

this now needs some sanding where I have had made some repairs, and If all goes to plan, the second half could be laid up this weekend.

I always find it hard to get to the lay up stage, but once there it seems to fly.

wdeighton

Just taking a break to breath

[smg id=27511]
jell coat with 25g then 100g

[smg id=27517]
390g twill + 300g biaxial

Now back to finish off with the chopped strand mat

wdeighton

[smg id=27519]

All Done and wrapped in plastic

and then into the vacuum bag

But things could have gone horribly wrong. it got very hot!
And started to make noises in the bag.
These noises could have been air trapped between the bag releasing or well I don't know
[smg id=27520]

I switched off the vacuum, got some cold water and soaked some cloth and layed them onto the mould to cool it.
I rang out the warm water and re-soaked a couple of times and now its not as hot as before.

I hope that it isn't ruined.

deckit

Good luck with the results, Will. :af

Geoff N

Fingers crossed . Is it Ok :xx

wdeighton

The waiting game is the hardest!

wdeighton

Well its rubish
It stuck quite hard, but more importantly on the second side it has a huge delamination / bubble under the surface. I think this was due to the excesive heat.
not sure if it worth continuing with.


deckit

You must be gutted, Will, but hope it's a mere blip in the whole process. :af

Sink a bottle of wine before proceeding to Plan B.

Geoff N

Quote from: deckit on September 09, 2013, 20:37:55 pm
You must be gutted, Will, but hope it's a mere blip in the whole process. :af

Sink a bottle of wine before proceeding to Plan B.
+1

hobster

Oh no! sorry to see that Will. Hope you can do something to fix it up...

thermaled

Give it a few days,  things always look bad to begin with. Even some delam can be excavated out and re-surfaced, it may not end up super perfect, but could still get functional parts from it I would have thought, after a good clean up and re-polish.

wdeighton

[smg id=27583]

The picture doesn't show me jumping, and no noticeable flex.

Its Out.

everything that could go wrong did, but this piece of the project is nearly there now