RCMF

Level 1 => Gliders & Gliding => Dynamic => Topic started by: wdeighton on December 28, 2010, 17:37:53 pm

Title: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 28, 2010, 17:37:53 pm
Nice scuff on the rock
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/adam-lambretta/photo-1766.jpg)

Fuse actually penetrated through a big mound of earth and out the other side
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/adam-lambretta/photo-775.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/adam-lambretta/photo-254.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/adam-lambretta/photo-2366.jpg)
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 28, 2010, 17:58:30 pm
So the plan is to cut the wings through the flap servo opening, fix and create a centre section.
Tim has offered to help by cutting the foam cores.
But there are allot of challenges ahead.
The LHS wing will take some repairing too.
Found these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-x-1-2-Rectangle-Aluminium-Tube-x-1995mm-END-CAPS-/270432011540?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3ef7010514#ht_2599wt_905) to use for sparing. will ask the lads at work for some solid steal joiners to suit.

The wing will be cut in 4 pieces. 250mm wide inner sections, parallel cord of about 209mm, and the outer panel is 294mm with the cord tapering down to 201.5mm. this angel seems to match the existing wing quite well.

Quite excited about this project. Hope it works well.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on December 28, 2010, 23:45:26 pm
Very ambitious Will, but hoping it works out well :af
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: gromit on December 29, 2010, 08:47:33 am
Good to see that someones going to tackle the repair. Look forward to hearing of your progress Will  :af.
I reckon you've just taken the task on though, to get out of your "Nappy duty's" ;)

  Stuart.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 10:29:46 am
spent the morning looking at sparing and decided that 1 by 1/2 was to small.
my search lead me to 1 1/2 x 3/4 which just fits in
http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=13&prd_id=7430 (http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=13&prd_id=7430)
I am also asking for some 8mm holes to locate the cores.
[smg id=25990]

the rear box is a servo representation as you can see I will need to clear the spar to fit it in.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on December 29, 2010, 11:28:06 am
Watching with much interest Will  :af
You'll have a D40, D60, D80 & D100 to choose between- Joe Manor will be envious!

Have you separated the wing in two yet?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 13:09:50 pm
Quote from: hobster on December 29, 2010, 11:28:06 am

Have you separated the wing in two yet?


Adam did this to help for transport.
I am quite tempted to cut them to size, but am a but apprehensive. I think I want the top surface to be flat to give a touch of dihedral, But not yet found an accurate way to create the line. At the moment I have a line which should give me a straight wing (Equal taper top and bottom), may just play it safe and leave extra material and then use and angled block to set it.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 14:16:30 pm
Hmm anybody live in the pontyfract area that f3f's or ds's?

Postage £12. maybe i am just being a bit petty

Or other supplies of ali extrusion?

I am also concerned that the wall section is only 1.5mm, so thinking of getting 2 pieces of 3/4 and putting them side by side.
this also comes in a 3mm wall section. This would give a total of 12mm vertical steel, and not 3mm.
But that means the joiner will have to be smaller. thinking of solid steel joiners, so it may not be an issue.
2 off 13mm. If I need I can go hi carbon tool steel, but getting it hard will not be as easy as when I worked in the tool room.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on December 29, 2010, 16:38:29 pm
What dimensions of steel joiner are you thinking of using Will?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 17:55:45 pm
If I go 2 off 3/4" side by side, it will be 2 13mm square joiners.

I may be able to get a third joiner in behind.

Or
What if I cut out one of the walls the length of the joiner, and then wrap carbon tows around to join them back together.
It will still be stronger than the 1 1/2" x 3/4 with 1.5mm wall section.

I will probably waist a whole load of money again buy buying both, and having a bit of a play, decide the neither are the best solution so I will purchase something else.

Its hard to conceive exactly how much force they will need to withstand. The spar caps should take care of some of the stress, I think the problem with this spar is to stop the joiner ripping it in 2. It may only take some tows wrapped around it to make it strong enough.

Need to have chat to the cae lads at work.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on December 29, 2010, 19:02:42 pm
With a 20" (or thereabouts) centre panel, presumably you are looking for the joiner to go all the way through the centre panel and extend say 10" into each outer wing panel. But that means a 1m wing joiner. Starts to get heavy when using steel - about 2.7kg for 2 x 13mm square..

What about carbon - e.g. a couple of these. 

http://www.woolmer.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_96 (http://www.woolmer.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_96)

or 2 x12mm carbon rod and 16OD/12ID glass tube. FWIW the 12mm carbon rod is about the only thing left intact on my repaired mct :(
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Adam Richardson on December 29, 2010, 19:13:13 pm
Hobster. I recon his center pannel will be more like 50 to 60 inch long.

   
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on December 29, 2010, 19:50:38 pm
Quote from: adam_lambretta on December 29, 2010, 19:13:13 pm
Hobster. I recon his center pannel will be more like 50 to 60 inch long.    


so 30" - 40" binned??  :o
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 20:49:34 pm
The centre section is 1088mm.(42.8") This is to give me a 100" span, and the existing wings cut through the flap servo.
Which kind of sucks because it means I cannot buy 1m lengths, I have to buy 2m and cut them down. Which is not all bad, as it gives me a single spar, and the off cuts can go into the wing tips.

I have contacted Tim and said not to worry about the main spar for now. I will make a plan once I know what I am doing and where it is going to go, He is just going to put the locators in for now.

there just seems to be a slight discrepancy between the wing and the section, So I am going to go upinto the loft now that the boy is asleep, and measure it for a second time.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 01, 2011, 22:44:19 pm
collecting the cores tomorrow.
Pictures to follow soon.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: muchalucha on January 02, 2011, 21:07:25 pm
A really cool project, watching with interest  :).
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: the.Timinator on January 02, 2011, 21:30:14 pm
I. on the other hand, am watching with some trepidation and fear...

What Will asked for was a bit unusual, presented several difficulties, not all of which were resolved as well as either of us might have liked  :xx

Suffice it to say that what seemed relatively simple here in the cybberworkshop did not go so well in the flame pits of Mordor...

As I have taken to referring to my garage  :''

But I really hopes this goes well, never seen anyone take this approach before.

Onwards and downwards!

Tim
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: thermaled on January 03, 2011, 00:06:48 am
Quote from: wdeighton on December 29, 2010, 20:49:34 pm


there just seems to be a slight discrepancy between the wing and the section, So I am going to go upinto the loft now that the boy is asleep, and measure it for a second time.


Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 03, 2011, 00:45:15 am
Quote from: thermaled on January 03, 2011, 00:06:48 am
Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark


Hello Mark.
I have read the same thing, but as I am cutting the wing at the flap servo box, I think the section is JM26 here. I have mailed Joe in the past and never received a response, Maybe the address I have is incorrect, but that is why I have not consulted him on this. i hope he will pop in one day and give his very valuable 2p.

With regards the main post, I think the problem was the way I was measuring the wing so I did my best to cut the wing as accurately as possible and then re-measured and came up with a dimension within .1mm of what tim had measured so I felt brave enough to give the go ahead and cut the cores.

So I picked up the cores today and am quite happy with what I have.
Tim has cut me 2 sets. One set is cut to the section, and the other with 1.5mm panel thickness. The point of this is when I add my layup to the smaller cores they should fit perfectly in the larger beds. Maybe a good Idea, Maybe not?  :xx

[smg id=26017]

[smg id=26019]

Thanks for your help Tim.

Anybody got a copy of the Phil Barns DVD? I have been advised to watch it buy a number of people, but nobody seems to be able to find their copies. (Maybe they don't trust me)

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Zim on January 03, 2011, 08:52:19 am
Quote from: thermaled on January 03, 2011, 00:06:48 am
Could be wrong about this but thought I read somewhere that the D80 wing has a jm26 root blending to rk40 at the tip, so depending where you have made the cut it would be a percentage blend of the two foils. Suggest you check with Joe about this before cutting foam.

Mark


You're quite right. I think Will's choice of words is sometimes hmmmm  ::) as the sentence he posted saying that there seems to be a "slight descrepancy between the wing and the section" seem to imply that Joe got his own model wrong - which I'm SURE that Will definitely didn't mean LOL!!  :D

Bed idea sound interesting Will. Just don't do the layup on the wrong set!!

Z
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 03, 2011, 09:52:18 am
Quote from: Zim on January 03, 2011, 08:52:19 am
You're quite right. I think Will's choice of words is sometimes hmmmm  ::) as the sentence he posted saying that there seems to be a "slight descrepancy between the wing and the section" seem to imply that Joe got his own model wrong - which I'm SURE that Will definitely didn't mean LOL!!  :D

Bed idea sound interesting Will. Just don't do the layup on the wrong set!!

Z


quite right, I was not trying to imply that Joe was using the wrong section, but we where trying to ensure the thickness we where using is correct.

beds marked up as bed or cores as cores, so hopefully no mistakes.

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Zim on January 03, 2011, 09:55:04 am
Good - given that it is the largest and most obvious possible DOH! moment on this project, it is likely to have its own gravitational field.

Z
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: pike pro on January 06, 2011, 19:51:21 pm
Hi will
Hows the beast coming on ? :)
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 19, 2011, 07:45:47 am
Spar ordered This morning
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aluminium-Rectangle-Tube-1-1-2-x-3-4-x-16g-1995mm-/270658168645?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f047be745 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aluminium-Rectangle-Tube-1-1-2-x-3-4-x-16g-1995mm-/270658168645?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f047be745)

The strength of these seem very good. We worked on a half beam with 5000N and it was causing the ali to open by 0.2mm So I think it will be fine.
I will how ever be doing a test and one of the off cuts by clamping them in a vice and putting as much torque on it as possible (Might need some big people to help)

As soon as these comes in I will have to have a work with a friend about some steel joiners. Hmmmm. I was thinking of making a set of carbons too?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 23, 2011, 21:40:29 pm
Progress. Yes, but not all the the right direction.
The Spars have arrived. 2 lengths of just under 2m.
I also picked up the material for the spars today, 600mm of 1 1/2" x 3/4" cold rolled mild steel. But this now needs machining down. I am a bit concerned that it needs to be done correctly so as it doesn't bow.

With regards the wing, well not much has happened, but done some more thinking.
And the latest thinking is to use the larger cores. But just do a thin layup, and then splash it. The reason for the change, well accurately. The other option (Same beds but cores cut to give a 1.5mm gap to the beds) I think will be difficult to get as accurate.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on January 30, 2011, 11:54:50 am
Hey Will, how's the metamorphosis progressing? Any new photies?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 30, 2011, 19:53:14 pm
Well not too bad, but wery little done to the d100.
Cleared one of the small jobs that I wanted to get out of the way. (Another one to go)
Also finishing off some Bathroom DIY that needs doing. (Slowly we are getting there)
And I ave made a start on the repairs to the Donor Wings.

to be honest, I still cant decide weather to go one hit thick layup vac bagged method, Or light lay up vac bag mould and make a proper job.
The second option in my mind will leave me with the most accurate wing, and posibily the stronger of the 2 solutions. But will need a mould making.
the making a mould part is not the end of the world, as I need / want more practice, But I wanted this bird flying by the summer, and it ain't gona be at this rate.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on February 02, 2011, 07:56:42 am
Thanks to hobster I think I have found a flap servo.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14910 (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14910)

There will be half of the existing flap on the donor wings, And well I will need more so will put another on the new wing.
Dont think 24lg servers will be needed, but these should be a good compromise.

But anybody know where I can get some ali horns that will fit? (MKS Spline)
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: satinet on February 02, 2011, 09:16:30 am
Will, I think they are futaba compatible on MKS's larger servos.

I bet it's comforting to know that your servos are water proof!  :o
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on February 26, 2011, 22:46:00 pm
Well I have a bit of an update

I now have the aluminium spars and Solid steel joiners (They are heavy 1 1/2" x 3/4" solid mild steel).
I am getting closer to getting the tips sorted.
I decided to go the mould route, and started bagging the centre panel this evening.
I had a plan to bag each panel separately, so everything would be linear, this way I could use a single mylar and piece of cloth going all round the leading edge. Doesn't work.
But I started this way and now need to finish this way. So the centre section is in the bag. And maybe tomorrow I will get the  tips in the bag.
The current layup is 25g glass, then 200g glass. just enough to make the mould.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on February 28, 2011, 23:02:52 pm
Pulled the center section out of the bag this evening.
Left it 48 hours to ensure curing in my cold loft.
Added some heating to try bring the temprature up.
:) ;) ;D
For my fist bagging attempt, I am quite happy.
Hope to get the tip panels done during the week, and joining by the next. :xx

Progress feels good. :af
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on February 28, 2011, 23:23:56 pm
Go for it, :af Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on March 05, 2011, 21:50:17 pm
more good progress
If things go well tomorrow, I may get to join the wings. But I may decide to visit someone who has a long bow to cut some holes for the spar.

So Been thinking about servos. And searching the www to find these

http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=SC1256TG&area=Servo (http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=SC1256TG&area=Servo)
20 KG, Why not? £54 I guess the question is do they come with a metal arm.

Also if anybody has a Sanwa SDX762 to flog, let me know how much you are after. alternatively where get I get one from in the uk?

Thinking the about the MKS 10 kg servo, Well I don't think I am any more. I was when i was going to run 6 servos in the wing, But now I am going to run 4, So thinking it will need to be stronger. If I could find a good 15Kg servo for a decent price I may be quit tempted.
There are a couple of other hitec that are in the running but not programmable. (Hitec HSC 5997TG is 13KG, Hitec HS 5998TG is 18kg and both only £57 )its only £10 but that's £40 at the end of the day) that savox at the top is looking even better now.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on March 05, 2011, 22:09:21 pm
can some one remind me if we can get metal arms for these savox Servos?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Adam Richardson on March 05, 2011, 23:15:23 pm
Go for the Savox that I had in my JW will. They are awsome. I have a nice new sanwa 762 I could sell you too mate.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: clayts75 on March 05, 2011, 23:22:26 pm
Quote from: wdeighton on March 05, 2011, 22:09:21 pm
can some one remind me if we can get metal arms for these savox Servos?

Aren't the bigger Savox servos compatible with futaba arms? Or am I remembering wrong $%&
Title: A boy saw a wing and the wing was good.
Post by: wdeighton on March 15, 2011, 20:11:43 pm
Not as good as Joe' and his D130 build long, But you goto start some where.

update.
After nearly being finished, I decided to scrap the other cores. They where too small and would take too many layers they would not be very accurate at all.

So a week ago I contacted my friendly Northern Foam cutting friend and asked him to cut me a new set of cores where the core was already the correct size (on compensation for glass, wood or any other thickness). May layup (200glass) is only 0.2mm thickness and I figure I will lose that in the bag. His turn around was fantastic and I collect the new cores on Saturday From Rushup Edge.
[smg id=26332]

I promptly started gluing them together, and by Sunday evening I had the cores ready to bag, All the cloth cut, Mylars ready and a New Bag.

[smg id=26334]
[smg id=26333]

Last night was when it got all exciting. Got the kids to bed and up I went until 11:30 pm when the wife started to winge. (Fair dues the floor of the loft squeaks allot.
[smg id=26336]
Cloth wet out on Mylar
[smg id=26337]
In the bag slowly sucking to avoid wrinkles.
[smg id=26338]
Full Vacuum (20 to 22" mercury)
[smg id=26321]
Ready to open the bag this evening
[smg id=26323]
Its a boy
[smg id=26325][smg id=26326]
Offering up the donor wings.
[smg id=26330]
[smg id=26331]

And for the rest of the day I will be happy.

Not 100% 1 domed in dump, but very little filling and primer and the exterior will be there.

To Do List
Cut to Length. and tidy leading edge and trailing edge.
Add spar.
Assemble to tips and blend if / where required.
Prime and sand to a mirror finish
Wax
and make the mould.

could be ready to mould within the next 2 weeks. (That would make me happy. But realistic will probably take much longer.) Lets strike while the iron is hot. and shut up before I a make too much of a t1t out of my self
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Rooster-X on March 15, 2011, 20:52:33 pm
Cool, can't wait to see it on the slopes soon  :af

Tom
Title: Re: A boy saw a wing and the wing was good.
Post by: the.Timinator on March 17, 2011, 19:44:13 pm
Quote from: wdeighton on March 15, 2011, 20:11:43 pm

To Do List
Cut to Length. and tidy leading edge and trailing edge.
Add spar.
Assemble to tips and blend if / where required.
Prime and sand to a mirror finish
Wax
and make the mould.




Hi Will

looking really good mate.

1 question though - if you are going to take a mould off this, do you really need to add a spar?

Tim
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: gromit on March 17, 2011, 20:03:21 pm
Impressive work Will  :af

  Stuart.
Title: Re: A boy saw a wing and the wing was good.
Post by: wdeighton on March 17, 2011, 20:53:10 pm
Quote from: the.Timinator on March 17, 2011, 19:44:13 pm
Hi Will

looking really good mate.

1 question though - if you are going to take a mould off this, do you really need to add a spar?

Tim


I hear you Tim. But How will I get the spar in the correct place in the mould? And how many scraps will be made in the process?
I can cut my hole slightly oversize (But as close as posible) and tune it to the tip panel to be sure it is perfect.
Then when I pull the mould I will put the joiners in the wings and mould around them.
This means I can use the joiners to line the spar up in the mould and be sure it is spot on in the correct place.

Like Joe has done.here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17593105&postcount=137 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17593105&postcount=137)

Although I may only pull a hand full at best, this is again a test bed to learn and practice. The next moulds I make I hope to make production standard and hopefully Sell some models to you lads. Already have the design, and plugs (well need to collect them). thinking of a 1 piece wing and a 3 piece wing for travel. We will see how it goes. Still need to learn more, And prove I can do it to my self.

Will

P.S. Thanx Stuart
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Joe Manor on March 21, 2011, 14:14:31 pm
Are you putting a spar in that bagged plug? If so, I might be able to help with another option.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on March 21, 2011, 19:43:16 pm
Quote from: Joe Manor on March 21, 2011, 14:14:31 pm
Are you putting a spar in that bagged plug? If so, I might be able to help with another option.

That was the plan.
But as soon as I started it soon became clear that it would not be easy.
So I damaged my core a bit. And stopped for a rethink.
I am now thinking of ways to do it in the mould and am very open to advice.
At the moment I am continuing to smooth the cores down, remove all the dents I have put in by pushing too hard, and from trying to spar it.
Then I will back to the sparing plan. but I am thinking of splashing, and then litrally cutting them into the mould. May not be easy to get accurate so Yes Joe, what you got for me?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Joe Manor on March 22, 2011, 19:19:35 pm
I would take my joiner boxes and glue them into the tip panels. Use the joiners to help keep everything aligned. Then, sand up i/2 the length of a joiner. Clear out the foam in the plug so you can glue it in. Make some slots in the foam so the glue can tie into the skin of the plug. Slide the smooth side of the sanded joiner into the tip panel and add some wax to so no epoxy can seep in between the joiner and the box and wrap some clear tape around the root of the tip so nothing can stick to it. Then brush a bunch of thickened epoxy into the hollowed out area of the center section. You will need enough glue so you get some squeeze out once you slide the joiner in. Wet out the sanded end of the joiner with the thickened epoxy as well. Then mate the tip panel to the center and mock up on the bench so all your angles are spot on. Once the glue cures the joiner will be permanently glued into the center panel at the proper angle. Then slide off the tip and you good to go. You can use this same method later to get all your pins aligned. If need be, you can make a couple of ribs with the joiner and pin holes milled out and slide in some pins and a joiner keeping the ribs a few inches apart. This will give you a jig with proper alignment. Glue it up and use it to set your pins in the tip panels first then use the first method to transfer the locations to the center section. Hope that didnt sound too complicated. The first method I use 5min epoxy. It is a 10 minute process once your tips are outfitted with the boxes.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Hot Air on March 31, 2011, 17:17:59 pm
This is a great project Will, thanks for sharing it with us. Advice from the master too, very cool  :af I hope it ends up as you wish, Steve
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: gromit on April 28, 2011, 15:43:28 pm
Its gone a bit Quiet on this build for a while Will, any updates or is it on hold at the mo  $%&

  Stuart.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on April 28, 2011, 22:46:30 pm
Yes.
hope to make a mould for the joiner this weekend.
Trying a new filler caller poraver. makes much lighter moulds with less resin and just as strong as sand. But much easier to work with.

Wing is nearly there from a smoothness point. I cut it to length last week and faced the sides off 2 nights ago. but needs another layer of glass as it seems a bit too week.

I think I have a method to put index pins and joiner / spar details in.

The clock is ticking as the opti mould tooling resin arrived today, and has a 6 week shelf life, so within the next 3 weeks I will have to have it splashed. I have all the ingrediance to do the lay up (200g carbon, 400g carbon, lots of tows 1.5kg resin, kevlar, peel ply, release film, lanor core mat.) Could have a wing before the end of summer.

At the moment i am planing on just using my d80 fuz. if its good i will start fixing the broken fuz and stab.

Will try take some pics.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: gromit on April 29, 2011, 06:20:17 am
Good to hear that its still coming along nicely Will  :)
Look forward to hearing more & seeing a few pics :co
Keep it up Will :af

  Stuart.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on May 04, 2011, 07:54:32 am
Did a bit more last night.

Think I finally have a picture in my head of how I will get the sparing / ends to work.
I have cut the holes into the sides, and plan to glass them tonight with a wing joiner, and 2 index pins that will be held in position by 2 templates 20mm apart. Will see if I can get some pics tonight. def more to show at the mo.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on May 06, 2011, 20:36:00 pm
pictures as promised
This is the wing mid smoothing, just after a coat of primer to see how it looked. more work required.
[smg id=26491]
[smg id=26492]
couldn't resit, the light'i up mam tor holding the d40.
[smg id=26493]
Wing faced and gluing in the joiner. It has been waxed, and just popes out. I will make a small joiner to put in for when I splash, and this will be used to position the spar when closing.
[smg id=26494]
Half a wing joiner mould.
[smg id=26495]
Was hoping to finish it this weekend but as light'i is turning 2 on Sunday, there will be no time.

Will try be a bit better at taking pics, hoping to do allot over the next couple of months, just need to remember the camera.

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: gromit on May 07, 2011, 10:05:42 am
Thanks for posting the pics Will  :af  Look forward to seeing & reading more soon please  :xx

  Stuart.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on June 29, 2011, 07:34:40 am
more about this later. in the mean time some pics.

[smg id=26666]

[smg id=26664]

the sections where taken of off the tips.
the left one looks good, but the right one looks a bit wrong on the trailing edge. about 1.5mm at the trailing edge.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on June 29, 2011, 20:16:50 pm
So as can be told from my trail I had a good night in the loft last night.
I stopped this for a bit to get some more motivation. it seemed like a lot of work and no results. so I have been playing with some carbon, building some wings and got a feeling of completion.

But

The thing that really got me down was when I noticed my cores where not perfect. 1 is good, and the other not.
I cant check the centre that accurately without cutting it, so will hope for the best with that. and now look to the future. I have 3 ideas in mind.
1 as it is pretty much linear, I could try sand it back to section.
2 I could cut one of the skins, bend it correct, and then re-glass.
3 I could get new cores cut and start again (Its always quicker the third time)
4 or I could just leave it and trim it correct.

None of these really seem like the best thing to do, What happened to Tony fu????? He would know what to do.

So for now I will think about it some more, maybe speak to others to get some perspective, and then get stuck in and Finnish this project.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on May 20, 2012, 01:22:04 am
Well at long last I have managed to get going with this. Or I will decide to stop.

I have started to flat it back some more, done a repair to the trailing edge where it got knocked, and well it needs some more filling and sanding.

lets see how this goes
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on May 30, 2012, 20:01:34 pm
A quick update
the wing is pretty smooth, and I have started to add the faring in the centre to blend the wing in with the d80 fuz.

Today I started cutting the parting boards, Ordered 5kd of epoxy resin, 8m of glass cloth (45g, 150g, 200g, and 360g).

My Aluminium poweder arrived today, and I expect my graphite powder to arrive soon. these are both for experimentation. They will be added to epoxy resin with some cabosil to form a gel coat.

Note to self, take more photos. I really have no excuse as I have a decent camera phone.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on May 31, 2012, 14:04:28 pm
[smg id=27114]
Setting up the Fuz Jig and testing with the D80 Win

[smg id=27115]
D100 Center section, with the faring sitting on top

This is now glued on, look forward to opening the hot box this evening and it being correct, and not sticking.

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on June 01, 2012, 09:05:48 am
Good to see you keeping the D100 project - and this DS glider forum - going!
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on June 01, 2012, 23:08:50 pm
This is going to be one interesting plane.

Hope it progresses smoothly, Will  :)
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on July 27, 2012, 21:18:45 pm
Hey Will done any more on this recently?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on July 28, 2012, 22:27:17 pm
As always this project is a roller coaster.

But it is progressing. I have been spending allot of time working on the fit between the fuz and the wing. And my biggest problem is me. Sometimes I know I should do / re do something, but I don't.Then I leave the project for a while, come back, and decided to re do, as it should have been in the first place.

The wing seat to the Fuz is good. But the original work I did to blend the top in has been allot of work, and still is. when that is done we are basically ready to splash. i have even started on the parting boards, but decided to stop until I have the wing done. I was hoping to have the mould done by now.

I will upload some pictures when I have somthing good to look at.

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 02, 2012, 22:19:35 pm
Did a bit more today and took some pictures to show progress.

To start with, an issue I noticed a while back, There seemed to be an aid bubble under the wing. about 30mm in diameter. I decided last night that it was time for this to be resolved. I punctured it with a scalpel, mixed up some thin resin and injected it in. Taped it up, and gave it a little pressure. Today I pulled of the tape, and sanded it back down. I then mixed up some micro balloons and epoxy as a filler and left it to dry.
[smg id=27206]

[smg id=27218]

The shape to the body is coming together quite well now. Just a couple of pin holes to fix.

[smg id=27207]

[smg id=27208]

[smg id=27216]

[smg id=27219]

On the one wing panel I noticed a little dent. So again last night I filled it, and today sanded it back.

[smg id=27210]

Back in the loft this week. If I work hard I may be able to get it ready for moulding.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on September 03, 2012, 01:13:08 am
So much work, Will, but must be good to have that centre section almost ready to splash. :af

Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on January 18, 2013, 17:52:00 pm
Got Some inspiration and have been doing bits and bobs on this project again.
Had some issues with de-lamination between the foam and the glass, So I have now vented the wing by drilling holes in the sides. I opened the incidence pegs, and the spar hole also has a holed drilled as deep as possible.

I have also progressed the parting board.

The following pictures show the wing in the board.

[smg id=27306]

[smg id=27307]

I then Glassed it to try make it more stable. I found it had a bent to it that was distorting the wing a touch.

[smg id=27309]

And this with the board clamped to hold it down.

[smg id=27308]

The above picture also shows my flexible hot box. I can work on something and then just cover it up with bubble wrap to warm it up. or leave the lid on and put it under.

Hope to do more when my epoxy rash goes down.

Will
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on August 31, 2013, 00:47:37 am
More later
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on August 31, 2013, 01:24:16 am
Good to see you progressing again, Will.

(And it would be good to see you at BC later this morning, a few of us will be there).
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on August 31, 2013, 20:35:55 pm
Quote from: wdeighton on January 18, 2013, 17:52:00 pm
Got Some inspiration and have been doing bits and bobs on this project again.
Had some issues with de-lamination between the foam and the glass, So I have now vented the wing by drilling holes in the sides. I opened the incidence pegs, and the spar hole also has a holed drilled as deep as possible.

I have also progressed the parting board.

The following pictures show the wing in the board.

[smg id=27306]

[smg id=27307]

I then Glassed it to try make it more stable. I found it had a bent to it that was distorting the wing a touch.

[smg id=27309]

And this with the board clamped to hold it down.

[smg id=27308]

The above picture also shows my flexible hot box. I can work on something and then just cover it up with bubble wrap to warm it up. or leave the lid on and put it under.

Hope to do more when my epoxy rash goes down.

Will


This parting board didn't work.
Being fabricated (To be cheaper) it was impossible to get flat. The more I tried the worse it was. So I chopped it in 2 and put it in the bin!
The next parting board was 5mm fiber board. The Idea is I wanted something that would conform to the wing, and not deform it. And I think it worked quite well.

The lay up for the mold so far was 25g, then 2 x 100g, 2 x 300g and then 4x 600g choped strand (not so nice to work with) it drank 1.5kg of resin in total. gel coat was 100g resin with 10g aluminium powder and then enough cabosil to thicken it up.

Went up to monitor the temperature (30°) and found an off cut of the parting board that had some resin soaked in, made me a bit nervous. Will the parting board come off? we will see tomorrow if no flying alternatively Monday. I did cover the fiber board with pva release agent. very wet and 3 coats. but I never put any R5 spray wax on it.

Here is a bad picture of the mould in the hot box

[smg id=27491]
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on September 01, 2013, 21:19:10 pm
Hi Will, Good to see you're making some more progress on this project. Did you do any more today - or decide to go flying?
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 01, 2013, 21:58:26 pm
Went flying. Baslow good day.
there was some air show in the area and alot of people had gone to curbar / baslow ridge to watch. As i arrived they where all leaving, but that did mean a fair wait to get to the car park.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 04, 2013, 08:19:31 am
Out the parting boards
Had some sticking problems, so stuck it in the bath to soften the mdf and the got it off in 100 000 000 pieces.
[smg id=27504]

[smg id=27507]

[smg id=27508]
Tong to fit a d80 fuz

[smg id=27509]
Leading Edge. Needs a clean up

[smg id=27510]
Trailing edge with wax to create a trough.
More wax will be added to create another trough on the side still to be moulded.
The Ideas is excess resin and cloth can go in there ans still give a nice tight trailing edge.

this now needs some sanding where I have had made some repairs, and If all goes to plan, the second half could be laid up this weekend.

I always find it hard to get to the lay up stage, but once there it seems to fly.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 06, 2013, 21:20:44 pm
Just taking a break to breath

[smg id=27511]
jell coat with 25g then 100g

[smg id=27517]
390g twill + 300g biaxial

Now back to finish off with the chopped strand mat
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 06, 2013, 23:42:12 pm
[smg id=27519]

All Done and wrapped in plastic

and then into the vacuum bag

But things could have gone horribly wrong. it got very hot!
And started to make noises in the bag.
These noises could have been air trapped between the bag releasing or well I don't know
[smg id=27520]

I switched off the vacuum, got some cold water and soaked some cloth and layed them onto the mould to cool it.
I rang out the warm water and re-soaked a couple of times and now its not as hot as before.

I hope that it isn't ruined.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on September 07, 2013, 00:44:19 am
Good luck with the results, Will. :af
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Geoff N on September 07, 2013, 09:09:45 am
Fingers crossed . Is it Ok :xx
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 07, 2013, 22:17:38 pm
The waiting game is the hardest!
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on September 09, 2013, 19:18:45 pm
Well its rubish
It stuck quite hard, but more importantly on the second side it has a huge delamination / bubble under the surface. I think this was due to the excesive heat.
not sure if it worth continuing with.

Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: deckit on September 09, 2013, 20:37:55 pm
You must be gutted, Will, but hope it's a mere blip in the whole process. :af

Sink a bottle of wine before proceeding to Plan B.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: Geoff N on September 09, 2013, 21:00:01 pm
Quote from: deckit on September 09, 2013, 20:37:55 pm
You must be gutted, Will, but hope it's a mere blip in the whole process. :af

Sink a bottle of wine before proceeding to Plan B.
+1
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on September 09, 2013, 22:44:10 pm
Oh no! sorry to see that Will. Hope you can do something to fix it up...
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: thermaled on September 10, 2013, 20:31:04 pm
Give it a few days,  things always look bad to begin with. Even some delam can be excavated out and re-surfaced, it may not end up super perfect, but could still get functional parts from it I would have thought, after a good clean up and re-polish.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on November 19, 2013, 20:06:51 pm
[smg id=27583]

The picture doesn't show me jumping, and no noticeable flex.

Its Out.

everything that could go wrong did, but this piece of the project is nearly there now
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on November 19, 2013, 20:22:19 pm
So back a bit

The Second half of the mould was pants. It took alot of filling and sanding to get it good.

[smg id=27569]

[smg id=27571]

[smg id=27572]

[smg id=27577]
This is mid layup
The 2 first layer of 100g bi-axial carbon and 2 layers of 300g x 100mm uni was on

The white stiff is lanor cormat that had been sprayglued and then cut to shape.

The next layers are 200g twil weave, some reinforcement in the front and rear, and the hinge line material.

[smg id=27580]
In the Bag

[smg id=27582]
This shows the spar, drag spar and aileron spars. The servos in position (There where glued in before closing the mould)

[smg id=27584]
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: hobster on November 19, 2013, 22:25:36 pm
Good to see a centre panel out of the mould Will. Just looked back to the first post - nearly 3 years ago!
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: wdeighton on November 20, 2013, 07:41:37 am
pot it on the scales when I took it up to the loft and it came out at 2kg  :ev

It is solid

There was too much gap between the spar and the skins, so I wrapped the spar in 4 x 400g carbon. warp down the length and weft used to wrap it. this was un wraping itself so I warped the whole thing with kevlar tows paring particular attention to the ends where the joiner will be trying to bend the aluminium spars open.

I may have gone over the top with this as the mould didn't close as well as I would have liked.
Title: Re: D80 to D100 metamorphosis
Post by: AvB on November 24, 2013, 10:55:51 am
Geeez Will, so much work mate! Huge, huge job. I admire your dogged persistence. I've been working on a 3 panel wing mould and have only finished one half of the centre panel, and although I have been doing this stuff for a while and should expect it, I am shocked and exhausted at the massive, massive amount of work. Some of what your thread shows are issues I've been dealing with just in the last few days. Good on yer mate, it's a great project and you're always learning.